BICOM

Over the course of the Israeli election campaign, BICOM will be interviewing candidates from across the spectrum. On Friday 23 January 2015, BICOM’s Researcher Lorin Bell-Cross spoke with Yesh Atid MK Rabbi Dov Lipman. Rabbi Lipman was born in Maryland and made Aliyah to Israel in 2004. First elected to the Knesset in 2013, he leads the Knesset taskforce for ultra-Orthodox integration in the workforce and chairs the Knesset delegations to the parliaments of Britain and South Africa. A podcast of this interview is available here.

In the second edition of our journal, Fathom, and just after the 2013 Israeli election, Benjy Goldberg, head of Yesh Atid’s English speaking campaign division claimed that, “Yesh Atid’s nineteen mandates have made it the second largest party in the Knesset, and brought a freshness to Israeli politics. Citizens are filled with hope for a better future and excitement about this new leader, Yair Lapid. He and his party arrive in the Knesset prepared for the long haul.” Yesh Atid entered the Knesset – indeed the government – with no previous experience of governing. How was this experience of transition from a newly created party to a key partner in a coalition government and what impact do you think it had on you as a party?

There is no doubt that our quick rise to being the second largest party created a challenge: on the one hand we were new and it takes time to learn the ropes of government, the Knesset and the best way to be effective. On the other hand, there were great expectations from the people who voted for us and from all of Israel. We had to balance getting things accomplished quickly with doing things the right way.

I think that for the most part we succeeded, there’s no doubt that there were mistakes along the way – that is part of the process. But we are in a position now where we are ready to enter our second Knesset knowing how to get things done, even as individual members of Knesset: I have my list of legislation which is ready to go, my committee work that I know I want to start immediately and we as a party have a real sense of where and how we can make a real difference. We’ve gone through the learning curve and can look back and see a list of accomplishments, but there is still far more that we want to accomplish.

The role of the ultra-Orthodox community in Israeli society was a key issue Yesh Atid campaigned on. In the fourth issue of Fathom you wrote that, “My dream is that the ultra-Orthodox population in Israel will serve as doctors, lawyers, accountants, hi-tech entrepreneurs, and Generals in the IDF. They will remain fervently Orthodox and Talmudic scholars while contributing to society, and in the process save Israel economically, socially, and spiritually. I think my dream is achievable. Once young ultra-Orthodox men understand that military service, higher education and professional careers do not demand that they forsake their religious beliefs and practices, they will pursue all these opportunities. The result will be an economically stronger Israel, a more value-centered Israel, and a more unified Israel.” How closer has your dream come to being reality since you have been in office?

We have made greater strides in this area than I would have imagined in less than two years. We see a 300 per cent increase in ultra-Orthodox young men who turn to the government for help in training and finding jobs. In our taskforce we have various projects that get an average of 500 résumés per month from young ultra-Orthodox people looking for jobs and little by little they are realising that they can combine together the values you mentioned in that quote. It is a process, it is going to take time, but once one person brings home a pay-cheque and shares that with his friend, his friend then wants to pursue it.

It’s not an institutional change from the top, but more of a street level change, where we reach the people and let them realise how we can impact their lives. I’m extremely optimistic overall. I will say that these elections came on us very quickly and I’m nervous about a potential government which turns back a lot of the accomplishments we’ve made in the past two years – that’s one of the reasons why I view these elections as critical.

But, now that I’ve seen in the past year and eight months how much can be done and how much the ultra-Orthodox appreciate the opportunity to work and support their families with dignity, that gives me optimism as we move forward.

You were a vocal opponent of the proposed nationality (or Jewish state) bill, you argued that, “The founders of Israel including iconic leaders of both the Labour and Likud parties would have rejected” it and that “The focus on a Jewish nation state law at this point in time seems to have been nothing short of an excuse to go to elections.” Why did you feel so strongly about this proposed legislation? And would you and Yesh Atid continue to oppose it in future governments?

We in Yesh Atid, and me personally, actually support a Jewish nation state law to balance out (we already have a constitutional law about human rights in Israel – which is important) and to add a constitutional law about Israel being a Jewish state, so that courts, when making their decisions, will always have that balance between human rights and maintaining the integrity of Israel as a Jewish state.

The problem we had was with the specific version of the law which the prime minister brought to the Knesset. He brought the most extreme version of the law which was authored by MK Ze’ev Elkin from the Likud Party, where, in the very first sentences, it downgraded Arabs to second class citizens in Israel. We rejected that; that’s against the vision that we have for Israel, where on one hand it is Jewish State but we preserve all the full rights of non-Jews and all minorities.

I believe that was an issue worth going to elections over; that value is so important to me and to our party that we would be willing to go with that position or bring down the government over that issue. We need to maintain a balance between Jewish and democratic, we need to always make sure that minorities in Israel, despite how difficult it is to live in a “Jewish State”, feel that they’re equal members of society and we will continue to fight against any efforts to hurt them and hurt their status in any way.

Like I said before, the moment that there is a Jewish nation state law which creates that balance –  we have one from one of my colleagues, MK Ruth Kalderon, which we believe creates that balance – we will support such a law that will in no way impact the Arab or minority population in Israel.

How would you assess Yesh Atid’s prospects for the upcoming election and how would you aim to distinguish yourselves from the increasingly popular Zionist Camp and from Moshe Kahlon’s Kulanu, with whom you are competing for the same centrist voters?

We certainly have a lot of hard work ahead of us. We were in office for a year and eight months and voters aren’t very patient, they want to see results immediately, so we are being judged more about what we didn’t accomplish than by what we did accomplish. But we are working very hard, going around the country every single day, every single night, and we’re turning the corner – we’re starting to see voters recognising how important it is to have a strong Yesh Atid in government. Emphasising that we are Zionist, emphasising our love for Israel, emphasising our love for Judaism, showing the uniqueness of the party that has people from all backgrounds – secular and religious together, immigrants from all the populations – and our hope is that people recognise the need for a strong Yesh Atid.

In terms of Kulanu, Moshe Kahlon’s party, we are dealing with a very similar electorate and voter base. We will likely be working together, either before the elections or after the elections, as a block, to help drive the direction of the next government, but for right now we are running on what we have accomplished, our long list of accomplishments, our lack of involvement in any corruption whatsoever – we come with clean hands to the Israeli population. When I put all of that together I am very confident that we can get back to our strength in the Knesset.

Despite the strengths and the achievements you highlighted, according to many opinion polls, voters are disappointed by Yesh Atid in government, and particularly Yair Lapid’s performance as finance minister. How do you aim to convince these critics to give you another chance?

Acknowledging mistakes is a big part of that, that’s something which we are certainly doing, but also emphasising the positives. The Israeli press (and press all over the world) prefers the negative story to the positive story and there are numerous things that we’ve done. Just as an example: giving one billion shekels to Holocaust survivors who now get their medication for free. That’s something which is a major accomplishment for Israel and for us having the finance ministry, but it’s not a story that was told enough.

We need to tell the story about the changes that are happening in education as a result of our education minister, about what was waiting in the 2015 budget with our welfare minister taking a 195,000 senior citizens and bringing them above the poverty line; the ultra-Orthodox story that we talked about – people don’t realise the change that’s happening as a result of our policy. The challenge is on us. We need to work hard, we need to get the message out and we’re doing that, and we already have seen a shift in the polls. When the election cycle first started we were in single digits, now we are consistently in double digits, and now we have to take those double digits and bring them to the 14-15 range, instead of the 11-12 range where it is, and I am very confident that we will be able to do so.

Current polling seems to indicate that in order for a government to be formed, after the election, a coalition between parties containing often diverging or contrasting opinions would have to join together. Lapid has vehemently attacked Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, he said he’s “disconnected”, but to replace him might mean joining a coalition with ultra-Orthodox parties. Are there any circumstances under which Yesh Atid wouldn’t join a coalition with these ultra-Orthodox parties?

We would not join a coalition if the basis of that coalition was “turning the clock back” on the progress we have made with that community, and we have made that very clear. We believe that this is the right thing for Israel; we cannot participate in a coalition which gets rid of the draft law [to recruit ultra-Orthodox men to the IDF], or the progress we have made. I do believe very strongly that there is a way to work together with the ultra-Orthodox parties where they themselves can recognise the progress which has been made; and even the head of the Shas party [Aryeh Deri] has made it clear that he would sit with us.

I don’t believe in negating anyone, we don’t believe in saying “we won’t sit with X, we won’t sit with Y” and that’s not the right way to govern. As long as the progress which we’ve made with the ultra-Orthodox community can remain in place, we do believe that there is a way to find common ground with those parties as well.