In this episode, Richard Pater speaks with Gadeer Kamal-Mreeh about the escalating violence against the Druze community in southern Syria. Gadeer offers powerful insights into the nature of the attacks, the fractured post-Assad Syria and the complex identity, history and loyalty of the Druze minority. She also explores the role of Israel and the international community in responding to the emerging threat of Islamist militias and reflects on the deep bond between Israel and the Druze.
Gadeer Kamal-Mreeh, director of Eastern Mediterranean Affairs at the Middle East Forum, is a Druze-Israeli broadcaster, politician, and consultant. She was Israel’s first non-Jewish anchorwoman for main evening news in Hebrew and Arabic and, in 2019, became the first Druze woman elected to the Knesset with Blue and White, serving until 2022. In 2021, Isaac Herzog appointed her the first non-Jewish Senior Envoy of the Jewish Agency in Washington, D.C.
Transcript
(This transcript has been automatically generated by AI — please excuse any potential errors.)
00:00:06:24 – 00:00:34:04
Unknown
Hello and welcome to the BICOM’s Podcast. I’m Richard Pater, the director of BICOM. And today is Monday the 21st of July. Over the last week we have watched with grave concern the fighting in southern Syria and the violence directed primarily against the Druze community there. To discuss this today, I’m delighted to welcome Gadeer Kamal-Mreeh, who is a Druze, a former Druze politician and journalist, to highlight to highlight the issue for us.
00:00:34:06 – 00:01:07:01
Unknown
Thank you very much indeed for joining us. Thank you, Richard, for having me. So just by way of background, she’s actually a remarkable woman who has broken several glass ceilings through her career. Back in 2017, she became the first Druze woman to anchor a Hebrew language news program on TV. Two years later, in 2019, she was elected to the Knesset as a member first of the Blue and White faction, before later joining the Yesh Atid party and making history as the first Druze woman to serve in the Member of Knesset, and then off to the Knesset as another first.
00:01:07:02 – 00:01:33:06
Unknown
She became the first Druze to represent the Jewish Agency in the in the US. She is currently the director of the Eastern Mediterranean Affairs Middle East Forum and as I said, a former member of of that set and of and the co-founder of Gcam Global Consulting. So with such a record, I think you’re ideally placed to answer a number of questions relating to the Syrian conflict.
00:01:33:12 – 00:01:54:17
Unknown
But perhaps I could start with just a couple of questions of background. And if you could just inform the audience who aren’t familiar. First of all, tell us who are the Druze? So thank you for having me. And allow me at first to thank you and thank Vikram and all of your colleagues and teams and partners and donors for the important work that you are doing.
00:01:54:19 – 00:02:12:24
Unknown
Beyond the UK, globally. We need your voices. We need your support. We need your attention. So thank you for that. For your question, many now are asking globally who are the Druze? You know, in the US, when I introduced myself, I am saying I am a Druze. They think that you’re a Jew. I say no and Druze the are you the de?
00:02:13:01 – 00:02:36:04
Unknown
So we are a tiny minority living in the Middle East, mainly in four countries in Israel, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria. We are talking about roughly 1.5 million members. There are so many unique facts to know about us. Our religion, our faith was originated 1000 years ago in Egypt from Islam, derived from Islam. But we separate it our religion.
00:02:36:04 – 00:02:58:20
Unknown
We have our own faith. And the most important fact to know is that we have no territorial or national aspirations. It’s not written in our religion that one day we are having our own homeland. That is why we are loyal to the country that we were born in. That is why Druze Israelis are loyal to Israel, Syria to Syria, Jordanian to Jordan and Lebanese to Lebanon.
00:02:59:01 – 00:03:23:13
Unknown
We draft in Israel in the highest number at IDF. Israeli Druze are drafting in, 82%, the highest number higher than the number among the Jewish sector, the loyalist minority in Israel. We are considered to be the most successful integration of a minority in Israel with Israelis more than Israelis. So this is the most important to know about us.
00:03:23:18 – 00:03:49:11
Unknown
But recently, it became an opening item to know what’s happening with the Druze in Syria. So we are talking again about the peaceful minority, about the symbol of Druze, in Syria, the mountain of Druze, with 700,000 members who have been simply been being attacked. Richard, since al shot our model surah. I came into power in December.
00:03:49:11 – 00:04:18:05
Unknown
What? What? The first was a, like, transition mode or, instability became as, is becoming a the campaign of terror against every minority. We saw that happening against the Alawites. In March, we saw that happening again, the Druze in April. We saw that happening against the Christian minority last month. And we saw that happening again in an unprecedented, dangerous way against the Druze last, last week.
00:04:18:05 – 00:04:47:17
Unknown
Now in July 25th. So we are talking about barbarism. We are talking about barbaric attacks, killing, public executions. You know, was they are the visuals that they promised ourselves. We set ourself never again reminded us of the Holocaust from last century. They shaved off, mustaches, beards of religious leaders, you know, and I am sorry for the visuals or for the graphic.
00:04:47:19 – 00:05:12:22
Unknown
You know, I, I barely can find the word to the words to describe to you, but we are talking about raping children five years old, children that were beheaded, kids that were sniped in their cars when they were in there with their families. We are still counting the casualties. We are talking about hundreds of people who were killed.
00:05:12:24 – 00:05:37:19
Unknown
Even hospitals. They came to hospitals killing sick people. They burned homes with people alive in them. And, you know, for me, as an Israeli, it’s like another October 7th. But now, Giuliani style, same methods, different locations. You know, the visuals of seeing elderly being kidnaped in a motorcycle like we had with Noah, seeing a violent player like guy.
00:05:37:20 – 00:06:06:00
Unknown
I’m just I’m trying to even to explain to you. And it’s so hard and it is another reminder of the extremism of the radical Islamism, of the fundamental radical faith that we have. And we are dealing with. And it’s another proof of the huge dissonance of the announcement, the speeches, the, the, the beautiful, promising signals that we would see from Al Jilani.
00:06:06:00 – 00:06:42:06
Unknown
But on the ground, what you see is these factions that are killing anyone who is not a muslim, that are doing what they are doing, operating freely in Syria. And for me, you know, I cannot even accept the excuse of, okay, it’s a transition mode, okay? It’s an instability. No, for me, regardless if you are controlling or not, if you send them by Damascus or not seeing these visuals, it’s, testimony or it’s a proof that we had or they had an atmosphere that is supporting, allowing, terrorism with this lack of leadership.
00:06:42:08 – 00:07:04:16
Unknown
And when we talk about leadership, I don’t see here I don’t know about you, Richard. I don’t see here liberal educated, Western, open minded, promising leadership. What I see is that of Islam, extremism, fundamental radical leadership. I don’t see you as a liberal leader. What we see, you know, the words embrace them very, very well, very quickly, very rapidly.
00:07:04:22 – 00:07:30:24
Unknown
The new administration, you saw the hug, the visual. You know, the hug of President Trump calling him a handsome excuse me, please hold your horses. The person didn’t prove any ability, capability, willingness to rebuild Syria. Yes. It is a chaotic environment. Yes, it is a transition. Both more. But seeing children raped and killed. For me, it’s not a sign of building a new democracy.
00:07:30:24 – 00:07:59:11
Unknown
It’s not a a positive signal that something good is happening here. Wow. Look, I want to come back and discuss the the situation. Obviously in southern Syria, it’s foremost in our minds. And you’ve already articulated to be such with such passion the, the concern that all of the, the international community should, should have for that. I just have a 1 or 2, if I can, just a couple of other background questions, just to set the picture before we talk about the events of the last, of the last week.
00:07:59:13 – 00:08:25:18
Unknown
So one question I have is you mentioned before that the Druze community are spread over, you know, that northern Israel, Lebanon, the Israeli controlled Golan and in, in Syria, what is the interaction and engagement, let’s say, kind of before the last week of those of those different groups, different, Druze communities from across the region, can you kind of give a flavor and a style of kind of kind of what, that what those connections are like.
00:08:25:20 – 00:08:50:24
Unknown
So we do share same faith. We are all Druze, but we are living in the most complicated region globally. We are in the middle of four countries who are not, you know, we do have a peace with Jordan, but we couldn’t even technically, physically meet them. You know, when we talk about the Jews living in Lebanon or Druze living in Syria, you cannot just drive your car and go to eat hummus with them in Beirut or in Damascus.
00:08:51:01 – 00:09:16:05
Unknown
You know, although we have relatives, we have friends, we have people who are living there, but you cannot really talk to them directly since till the fall of Bashar, they were living under a dictatorship. They were telling us we were raised in the way in which our parents were telling us, the walls are listening. Zero trust in the way of you must deal with every Israeli as a mossad agent and the Zionist movement.
00:09:16:07 – 00:09:40:19
Unknown
But now they could, you know, now, after the fall of Bashar al-Assad, they have the voice to speak again. They see what is happening in the world, and they are asking the world to support them, to protect them, to be integrated in, you know, in some form or construction that we may find as Israelis. You they are even some there are some voices who are asking to be annexed by Israel.
00:09:40:21 – 00:10:13:10
Unknown
You know, historically, Israel has been always interested in southern Syria as a buffer zone to protect its north and borders. And when you see the formation of a new remnants of ISIS, of al-Qaida, who are chanting, by the way, I encourage you, Richard, and our listeners, listeners and the audience, just to simply go to open sources, go to reliable sources and see them chanting, Jerusalem is next, that we are here to fight in a much more broad or, wide aspiration, against the Jews.
00:10:13:10 – 00:10:42:16
Unknown
So there are many layers of this combat, but some people are trying in Mr.. In Western media mistakenly to to frame it as, yeah, it clashes, clashes between the Bedwas of the Jews. No, it is much more what we are talking about. Clash of civilizations. We are talking about attempt to force Islamism to to force people to, to adopt Islam and not to protect minimal basic minority rights.
00:10:42:18 – 00:11:06:07
Unknown
And when it comes to the, to the Syrian Druze, I wonder if you could just give us a little bit of a flavor of how they how they organize themselves politically. What are the different, factions within the inside, within the Druze community, within Syria. So now they are trying to build themself again, you know, for for me, you know, sometimes it’s hard to understand.
00:11:06:07 – 00:11:34:03
Unknown
What does that mean? To live under a dictator, lacking the minimal power. You know, if they had a wedding with, like, minimal 20 people that they have to to have a gathering, a wedding, they need that special permission from the government. Sometimes it’s hard for us to understand the mind when you are living under a dictator. After the fall of Bashar al Assad, they sit as a minority, as a peaceful minority in suede, the mountain of Druze.
00:11:34:05 – 00:12:02:06
Unknown
They were being attacked again and again, and Damascus is trying to force them to put down their weapon. And they say, we cannot allow that because we have no protection. So that are some different voices among them. But the leadership, the real main voices controlling them, especially the spiritual leader Hekmatyar. Al-Hariri, who is leading the mainstream, is now saying, okay, we cannot lay down.
00:12:02:06 – 00:12:23:18
Unknown
We cannot put down our weapon when we have no guarantee of minimal basic guarantees from Damascus. And you know, the bottom line, the results see how hundreds are being killed, attacked, kidnaped. We are talking now. There is a list of 80 women who were kidnaped babies, children. So, you know, you asked what is coming. First, I need you to.
00:12:23:18 – 00:12:48:06
Unknown
I need to trust my administration for that. It is coming to help me, to support me, to protect me. And then I may put down my weapon. But the leading voices now of the spiritual leadership in Syria is saying we must stay powerful, powerful community and stand to protect our people because there is zero trust of Damascus. Oh, and of what is called the new administration of.
00:12:48:08 – 00:13:15:07
Unknown
And so beyond the spiritual leadership of which is the religious leadership, are there other factions within kind of politically organizing the the Syrians and is there is there a distinction between the, the the Jews of Jabal Druze and Sweida and the Druze of, of, for example, that are much closer to the Israeli border that the majority are seeking to be integrated in some form in Israel.
00:13:15:07 – 00:13:44:06
Unknown
The majority, you know, at the end of the day, which it’s realpolitik, they see where they are living and under which circumstances are these, these these are the the Jews of the Golan you’re talking about now, we’re also also in southern Syria, not not just the Golan, who were annexed in in Israel in 1981. I, I’m speaking about the Syrian Druze specifically, regardless, regardless if you’re living in Sweden or in other they have no basic utilities which had no running water, no electricity.
00:13:44:06 – 00:14:04:09
Unknown
Even the internet was shut down. They cut off the internet to prevent them to to show the world, the atrocities they are committing. So so they see that they have no power, they have no right. They have not even minimal protection. And there I think, the work to protect them. And this what who, who who is the only player who is now supporting them.
00:14:04:14 – 00:14:29:03
Unknown
We Israel, we as the state of Israel, we as the Druze community, as the the brothers and sisters. Everyone is supporting sending supplies, medicine, food, money, weapons to try even to allow them to just to stand up. They have been fighting for seven days alone when Jordan, you know, they were abandoned by Jordan. There is a humanitarian path between Syria and Jordan.
00:14:29:05 – 00:14:54:13
Unknown
In the first days, there were hundreds of children and women who just escaped this massacre. Try to to come to Jordan to pass through the border, which is not an official border yet, but this is a humanitarian path. And the Jordanian authorities were not cooperating. You know, unlike other massacres that we had, in which you saw the coalition of Saudi Turkish power, they abandoned them all.
00:14:54:15 – 00:15:19:23
Unknown
They see them as a tiny minority, as as a transition mode with which is, for me, is the major challenge of us as a Druze minority to reframe the discussion, to say, no, no, no. It’s not a Bedouin versus Druze minority. We are talking about ethnic cleansing, cleansing. We are talking about red crossing the red lines. We are talking about dangerous alarms.
00:15:20:00 – 00:15:53:24
Unknown
You know, as Israelis, we promised our cell phones to cover seven. Never again. We are implementing the doctrine of zero trust in the way we will not allow ourself anymore to see again the model of Hezbollah. Do you remember what was in 2000? We withdrew completely from Lebanon. What we got, we got Hezbollah building itself, being equipped, funded, funded, trained for 23 years, becoming the eighth biggest, weapon and missile arsenal in the world, threatening our northern borders.
00:15:53:24 – 00:16:27:05
Unknown
We will not allow that again. Same. Same the model with God, but the model with Hamas. We withdrew completely from from from Gaza in 2005. And we got Hamas, terrible leadership, terrible priorities, who were building Gaza underground instead of investing human capital. So now we are saying, you know, it’s not Bedouin against Druze. We are talking about radical Islamism that is now emerging as remnants of ISIS and building their power and, raising their heads again and chanting, Jerusalem is next.
00:16:27:05 – 00:16:46:19
Unknown
And I really encourage everyone to believe them because as an Israeli post, October 7th, I do believe them. You mentioned the you mentioned the kind of the fighting or the tension between the Druze and the Bedouin. Again, can you just give us a little bit of background with a kind of in an aside, under the Assad regime, was that with the peaceful relations?
00:16:46:19 – 00:17:14:13
Unknown
Are there is there is there coexistence or what was the what was the nature of that relationship beforehand? So under dictatorship, I believe no one has real power, neither regardless to which ethnicity you belong or religion or which language you speak. Everyone was under Bashar al-Assad, the dictator. But like the first, Bashar al-Assad falls. So every minority now is trying to reestablish, rebuild itself or its image, like we had with the Kurds in the north, south.
00:17:14:14 – 00:17:50:18
Unknown
You know, Algerian is trying to speak about unity. One is Syria is divided, is trying to speak about freedom when they lack minimal rights of freedom. So for a question, it’s not, a problem or a clash between tribes. Like, if I would take you back with me to April, the last, massacre that the Druze had, you know, it was because of a fake recorded fake, of course, for our audiences who are listening to us, I put fake in quotes because someone, somewhere, somehow here, a Druze shit is speaking.
00:17:50:18 – 00:18:14:02
Unknown
I even don’t have the real, the authentic, the accurate. What to say spoke in a negative way against the Muhammad prophet and suddenly there was a massive massacre against the rules. And I what I say all with as a political expert, it’s not you know, it could be tomorrow morning a fake recording. It would be a misunderstanding, miscalculation, disinformation.
00:18:14:02 – 00:18:46:22
Unknown
Call it as you wish. At the end of the day, if Ahmad is shut out, Al Jalali, the jihadis in the south, the Syrian president call it as you wish. If he’s seeking to to be the new president and to be considered as a reliable, central, promising voice, he must control all of these factions. You cannot accept the fact of having 40,000 fighters travel and physically entering in a very organized way to swadia and committing, this massacre for seven days.
00:18:47:03 – 00:19:24:16
Unknown
And you would say, hey, I don’t control them. Hey, they don’t represent me. Hey, I didn’t send them. Guess what? For me, regardless, regardless of these circumstances, if you are seeking to be the leader, you must control you must you. And you are responsible to control this. You know, this scene, this horrible visual we are seeing now that you preempted my my next, my next question, because I was about to ask that kind of within the Israeli context, it seems people are divided on whether the, the, the new president of Shalva, whether he ordered the attacked or whether he’s just lost, lost control of your fighters.
00:19:24:18 – 00:19:52:05
Unknown
What’s your what’s your overall assessment there again, realpolitik. Think with me. Let us zoom out. Macro perspective. What what what a shut out got since December for me is unprecedented support from the global arena to see this hug physically, even as a, you know, seeing President Trump calling you a handsome, loving you, removing all sanctions in the most rapid, dramatic way.
00:19:52:07 – 00:20:20:02
Unknown
For me, it’s an excellent way to start to build your country. And I I’m asking you, Richard, shaving off, a beard of, I don’t know, just man, does that. Or is that a positive signal that telling you. Yes. Syria is heading toward a new direction? A promising direction? You know, when you see repeated, you know, sniping babies for me, I need now to stop and rethink and recalculate.
00:20:20:02 – 00:20:48:18
Unknown
And I am here talking about also the US administration about its foreign policy in general, about the Middle East and specifically about Syria. We cannot have someone in this matter without even having the minimal proofs or willingness or plans that, yes, they are going to build a pluralistic, equal democracy. I don’t see that happening. And for me, this is a red warning sign.
00:20:48:23 – 00:21:27:24
Unknown
Stop. Hold your horses. Rethink. Maybe we need a really real educated, liberal, secular voice to lead Syria. They are trying to change the identity of Syria. I think the last thing the Middle East need in this phase is another fundamentalism, another radical Syria in this complex geopolitical arena. And from an Israeli interest, I would tell you, yes, I understand very well that this is the last thing that we need, you know, past October 7th, the Middle East is rebuilding, reshaping itself, by the way, in the opposite direction.
00:21:27:24 – 00:21:57:08
Unknown
What’s inverted on October 7th, he thought, when you play chess, you always calculate ten steps ahead. At least he did this strike. And then all the proxies of Iran, including the head of the octopus, they are collapsing and we are succeeding in defeating them. So I understand that the Syrian Trump is the last thing that, as Israelis we need now, but it is good for us to channel them into layers strategically as the state of Israel.
00:21:57:08 – 00:22:24:01
Unknown
It’s important to to look to what is happening in Syria and to cut off and to eliminate any threat in its first phases. And it’s good in the basic humanitarian moral challenge. Channel for me, you know, when we go back to last century to the Holocaust and we promised ourselves never again, we blame the world of not saying, of not doing, of not standing.
00:22:24:03 – 00:22:48:05
Unknown
You know, for me, receiving vocal messages of people trying, begging for help, hiding their babies in the shelter. For me as a Druze as well, I will tell you, I will tell you, we cannot just stand and do nothing. That’s why we saw our men not waiting for any command. They physically want to cross the border to offer help.
00:22:48:07 – 00:23:03:17
Unknown
What’s the. That’s interesting. Well, what’s the status of that? I mean, what do you. I mean, the Israeli government were warning that it was dangerous for the, for the Druze of the Golan to cross over. They could be, they could be kidnaped or killed. What do you think is the, what’s what’s the right thing to do?
00:23:03:17 – 00:23:22:10
Unknown
I mean, I understand from you from how you eloquently you’ve expressed the, the sheer desperation and concern, and maybe that’s maybe that’s the answer, but what would you what would your recommendation be to kind of to fellow Israeli citizens of, from the Jewish community? What what what could and should they be doing? It is dangerous. It is complicated.
00:23:22:10 – 00:23:46:02
Unknown
I don’t want anyone to be hurt, not innocent people to be killed. But I really offer our audience just to close their eyes and to imagine that we have a tiny, peaceful community, Jewish community living in Syria and having this massacre for more than a week. What would you do? You know, people who know how to express themself went to the media.
00:23:46:02 – 00:24:17:20
Unknown
People who succeed to donate money started donating, sending supplies. Anyone who could offer minimal help tried to do anything. And I think this is the minimal commitment that we have. And this is, you know, the relationship between the Jews and the Jews started even before the establishment of the state of Israel. I really encourage our audience to go to books to open sources, to read about the brave leaders, the leadership, the Jewish leadership in the last century.
00:24:17:20 – 00:24:42:08
Unknown
They were meeting, talking, and they found out that there is a similarity between the Jews and the Jews. When we talk about the faith, when we talk about values, that is why the Jews who lived in the region decided to stand with the Jewish people and to build the state of Israel. That that is why in 1956, we had the, the, the drafting bill that is that it is mandatory.
00:24:42:08 – 00:25:03:18
Unknown
Every rule was made, age 18, draft mandatory into the army. So it’s a covenant of blood that we succeeded to translate it to covenant of life. Today, the story of the Druze in Israel, for me, is a successful model of an integration of a minority in a state that the state of Israel can be proud. Oh, we are Israelis more than Israelis.
00:25:03:20 – 00:25:31:14
Unknown
I would guess, in northern Israel, in two languages. I dream and think in Hebrew. So for me, this is a continuation of the commitment of my state to my brothers, the Druze brothers and sisters in Syria, who are experiences experiencing what they are experiences. And for me, I see my Jewish people, friends, sisters, and for me, I don’t have to explain to them, what does that mean to live under October 7th?
00:25:31:16 – 00:25:58:18
Unknown
It’s another reminder of October 7th is another reminder of the Holocaust. You know, same method, Richard, different places. You see the visuals. It’s horrible when you see the visuals of women kidnaped, of of women, of men of of being, shaved off when you see, killing of babies ten, ten months old, you see. Oh my God, we had us less than two years ago and it’s happening again.
00:25:58:18 – 00:26:24:00
Unknown
So in the moral, basic, humanitarian level, we must stand up with them. And what do you what’s your expectation of, of President Trump? And, I mean, we saw the British foreign minister also visiting Damascus just a couple of weeks ago. What should the US watch watch what approach, what policies should they enact within the US, the British government and the international community?
00:26:24:02 – 00:26:46:14
Unknown
You know, as a political expert, we have been covering very closely in recent months, specifically after the fall of Bashar Assad. And I have been following very closely, the special envoy, Tom barrack, that President Trump appointed him. And he’s very enthusiastic to bring us peace, you know, but, you know, we are intellectually we are not naive.
00:26:46:18 – 00:27:17:04
Unknown
I was born and raised in the Middle East, understand the Middle East very well. And again, I would tell them, all your horses rethink about your policy when you see this visual coming from Syria, from Damascus, you understand that there is a permissive environment allowing terrorism that now may be framed or seen a small clashes. But I see them already becoming and growing as a strong movement that we must.
00:27:17:06 – 00:27:46:20
Unknown
When I say we not just as Israelis, it’s beyond Israel. We as the Western liberal minds need to take care of them maybe five, ten years later. So I want to eliminate these threats when it’s coming in the first phase. I don’t want them and not not to allow them to be funded, heavily funded, equipped, trained like we had with Hezbollah and Hamas.
00:27:46:22 – 00:28:19:11
Unknown
And you mentioned before, I mean, what are the prospects of kind of some of the other minorities within Syria? The Christians, the Kurds kind of also showing that support and being able to to rally, to defend, to defend the Druze at the moment, all minorities in Syria who are not Muslims are suffering. I encourage our audience to study this case and to see the dramatic, rapid campaign of terror against minorities since December, what started as a transition mode is becoming.
00:28:19:11 – 00:28:48:24
Unknown
Extremism is becoming. Islamism is becoming, a very dangerous and precedented way to force people to adopt Islamism and not to protect the even the lack of interest, standing, minimal rights. And, you know, they think that the the majority can force minorities to adopt their faith. It’s a mistake. It’s a fatal mistake that any citizen of the globe must educate themselves.
00:28:49:01 – 00:29:18:24
Unknown
And here I think, you know, when you ask me, what is the major challenge, I think it’s here because the hardest thing to change our minds. Some of these people think that the majority can play as they wish, can shape the identity of Syria. And as modern global citizens, we are saying, no, it’s unacceptable in 2025 to rape kids and to forth to kidnaped women and to force them to adopt Islam.
00:29:19:01 – 00:29:42:12
Unknown
Unacceptable. And just on the kind of the latest moves, as we’re talking, over the last 24 hours, there was there was suggestions that the IDF would stop their attacks against the, against the jihadis. The idea that the, the regime would bring in forces to kind of to police the area between the Druze and the and, and the Bedouin, tribes that.
00:29:42:17 – 00:30:07:12
Unknown
Are you buying that is that say, is that very bring a jump to it’s very fragile. You know, last week they tried to force, Sheikh Hikmat Alhaji, the leader, to agree, to kind of, form with 14 clauses that they are putting down their weapon. They are they don’t understand the language of democracy. They lack the understanding of democracy.
00:30:07:12 – 00:30:30:20
Unknown
And they think that by forcing a minority to accept their deals now, they will buy time, they will buy silence. So so if there is no kind of ceasefire, but it is very fragile, and I am afraid that they wouldn’t live under stable conditions as long as Al-jalaa and his forces. You know, we didn’t mention the important word.
00:30:30:20 – 00:30:54:21
Unknown
Hey, at the very shop at the militia, which is, you know, I really encourage our audience to read about this, which is ISIS remnants. We are talking about roughly 40,000 fighters. Some of them came from Chechnya, from Afghanistan. They don’t even speak Arabic. They don’t. They are not coming from the Middle East. They came just for one thing, to force Islamism.
00:30:54:23 – 00:31:15:09
Unknown
And then not even to call them human beings. I don’t know even how to call them. After the barbaric visuals came from Sweden, there is a sense of terrorism. So this is what they understand. This is what they think that they are going to do next, Tel Aviv. And we must stand and help our brothers.
00:31:15:11 – 00:31:38:22
Unknown
So just a couple more questions. I mean, what do you kind of what’s your expectation now of the role that the IDF, could and should be playing with in southern Syria through our Prime Minister Netanyahu and our defense Minister, Katz said from day one, since he took power, that attacking the rules is a red line, we are implementing that policy.
00:31:38:22 – 00:32:06:14
Unknown
But sometimes I feel it’s too little, too late because bottom line, when you see hundreds of bodies, you understand that maybe we disappointed them, that maybe we are not doing enough. Yes, it is complicated to go there all out as IDF. We do have the capabilities. We don’t have to explain the war again. I believe under the war, the direct war that we had with Iran, we proved to the world that we are back again as a rising lion, as a regional superpower.
00:32:06:17 – 00:32:29:22
Unknown
We do have the power after the failure of October 7th to deter any enemy. The question is at which form, at which in which structure we are going to protect them, and how the developments are going to be in the next days. Are we going still to see kind of, fragile ceasefire? Are we going to see them back emerging, killing?
00:32:29:24 – 00:33:00:08
Unknown
It’s too early to predict, but I could tell you for sure that there are serious discussions in Jerusalem with all with all layers as administration of government, as a as IDF, as defense forces. There are plans, there are maps, to see kind of a form to have the buffer zone to protect our borders, in the demilitarization policy that they are not respecting, by the way, that the new regime, let us wait to see.
00:33:00:08 – 00:33:24:08
Unknown
But Israel is watching. And again, if you’ve preempted my my final question of kind of what do you think of the, the prospects of some form of normalization or building some form of security understandings that built in to the arrangement, protects the, protects the rights of the of the Druze. How confident are you and what what do we need to see happening?
00:33:24:10 – 00:33:52:23
Unknown
The, you know, the famous sentence that we have in the Middle East, the most stable thing of the Middle East is its instability. So last month we were so positive. Everyone was so enthusiastic that, in two months we are going to to to take Airbnb to discover Damascus. Everyone was talking about not just security agreements, but also and Abraham Accords version two that we will succeed to leverage these agreements.
00:33:53:00 – 00:34:20:15
Unknown
So what I see now, you know, after seven months in these clashes, I think that Israel or Jerusalem specifically is rethinking about its politics. Regarding Al Giuliani, yes, there are direct calls, including in Azerbaijan and also here in Jerusalem, I think both sides and which stands Israel and Damascus, that this is not the right or the perfect circumstances to have kind of clashes, direct war.
00:34:20:17 – 00:34:48:08
Unknown
I think both sides need now minimal, minimal, let’s say direct clashes. But, Jerusalem is implementing the doctrine of zero trust. When Jerusalem is seeing these visuals coming from sway that Jerusalem understand that we are here having a serious problem. So the talks in the future when, you know, when the when we have the renewal of the talks in the future, I believe it is affecting the talks.
00:34:48:08 – 00:35:17:15
Unknown
The talks are going to be much more careful and, emphasizing the importance of the demilitarized demilitarization policy and the buffer zone. I really encourage our audience to open the maps to see what is way that is located harder. Israel always dreamt of southern city as a continuity. When you have pro Israeli minority who is asking to be integrated, seeking to be annexed.
00:35:17:15 – 00:35:48:19
Unknown
I think this is a historic moment that maybe should be considered seriously in Jerusalem. When you have these people lacking power, lacking protection, asking you to, to, to kind of protect them, and you need that protection in the geopolitical complexity, there are many forms, and Israelis are very creative, as you know, in forming different, constellations or structures.
00:35:48:21 – 00:36:16:17
Unknown
And for me, even even not permanent control, but even to stabilize when Syria is stable with liberal protective regime to have them their own freedom. But when they think that, Afghani terrorists are the nationals or the new Syrians, if they see that Damascus. So we are only problem here. So sorry, I thought I was going to call in, but I just have one one final question, because what you said is fascinating.
00:36:16:20 – 00:36:39:21
Unknown
I mean, the idea I mean, there is there is obviously territorial contiguity with the village of Hadar, but with, but with, with Jabal Druze and Sweida, there is a gap of 50km in the. And so where how does that how how do you see that work and realistic realistically, that Israel will be able to, to be able to create that, that protection.
00:36:39:23 – 00:37:04:07
Unknown
So, yes, it’s fascinating. I believe we are privileged to cover the Middle East. When we open maps, you see, the continuity of had our way to connect Rabat. You see that with roughly 100,000 Sunni Muslims who are not that enthusiastic to be included under Israel. Yes, it is problematic, but, you know, you know, realpolitik on the one hand.
00:37:04:07 – 00:37:34:07
Unknown
But but you see them chanting, from the river up to the sea. We are here to continue to Jerusalem. Let terror attacks you see Israel, you see Druze. Syrians are saying here, hey, we have no water, no electricity. We want Israel to adapt us to our exiles, to be integrated. I believe, as you know, when we zoom out in a macro perspective, Turkey is in the picture as a player.
00:37:34:09 – 00:37:59:21
Unknown
Other Gulf states as regional influencers, as players are in in the picture, the U.S. administration is playing very well in the region and trying to find a new form of agreements and to expand the Abraham Accords. Let us wait and see, because I believe when the global arena or international players put much effort, energy, time to solve it, they will succeed.
00:37:59:23 – 00:38:27:15
Unknown
But they need to put much more time, much more effort to recalculate their steps. Then to look at the back the map again and to find the solution, to provide minimal humanitarian protection to these minorities first. Well, thank you so much for your time today and the feel, feel passionate, presentation. We can only hope, for more peaceful times ahead for, for for all of us in the region.
00:38:27:15 – 00:38:34:20
Unknown
And, maybe see it come in the days ahead. But thank you for now. Thank you very much. Thank you. Richard, thank you.