In this episode, Richard Pater speaks with Terry Newman about Israel’s transition into what he calls the Jewish Century. Newman argues that Israel’s mainstream Jewish majority is seeking to reclaim ownership of Jewish identity, culture, and tradition from increasingly radical religious monopolies. The conversation explores how this struggle is shaping debates over democracy, national ceremonies, education, and Israel’s evolving story at home and abroad, including its foreign policy and regional relationships.
Terry Newman is an entrepreneur and investor in the construction, security, and healthcare sectors. He has previously served as a strategic advisor at McKinsey & Company and as Chief of Staff to a member of the House of Lords. He is Chairman of BNA Public Council, a member of the World Jewish Congress, and holds degrees from Oxford University and Tel Aviv University.
Transcript
(This transcript has been automatically generated by AI — please excuse any potential errors.)
00:00:07:00 – 00:00:28:12
Hello and welcome to the BICOM podcast and the first episode of 2026. I’m Richard Pater, the director of BICOM. And today is the 7th of January. My guest today is Terry Newman, who, like myself, is a London born British Israeli. Terry, welcome to the podcast. Hi, Richard. Nice to see you. And, welcome to the listeners.
00:00:28:14 – 00:00:52:13
So, by the way, a background, Terry is an entrepreneur and an investor in construction, security and healthcare industries. Previously, he served as strategic advisor at McKinsey’s and as a chief of staff to Lord Janna in the House of Lords at the British Parliament. He is the chairman of BNA Public Council, which is the Jewish Movement for Social Change and a member of the World Jewish Congress.
00:00:52:18 – 00:01:11:18
He holds a B.A. in MA from Oxford University and an Ma in Security and Diplomacy from Tel Aviv University. And for the purpose of kind of the start of this call, at least. He is also the author of a new book, which is so far only available in Hebrew called The Jewish Century. So, Terry, perhaps we could start with the book.
00:01:11:18 – 00:01:45:04
And if you could just tell us a little bit about what was the genesis behind writing it? X and so, there was a book written called The Israeli Century. And my book, has come to be the answer to that book, The Israeli Century. My argument is that the Mamluk majority in Israel, which is the mainstream of, Israelis, it’s about two thirds of the Israeli population who are educated in the Israeli school system serve in the army.
00:01:45:06 – 00:02:18:10
I’m sorry. Do you want to do you want to just, unpack mamlachtiyutfor any non-Hebrew speakers? Mamlachtiyut, let’s call it mainstream. Mainstream Israelis. When? Yeah, we no can unpack it too much now because I think at least half an hour and a half. We’ve only got half an hour. When the book comes out in English, read it and then, you can understand, but half mainstream Israelis, two thirds the hard core of Israel, educated in its educational systems, are serving in the military, working in the economy.
00:02:18:12 – 00:02:40:07
They have succeeded massively in the historic task of the Israeli century, which was, reviving the language which was building and setting up a country was in gathering the exiles. It was building an army. It was building an economy. And yeah, we’ve just crossed the $60,000. GDP per capita, which is a huge achievement above many countries in Europe.
00:02:40:12 – 00:03:15:17
We have one of the strongest militaries, not only in the Middle East, but also globally. And now when that majority is looking for its next stage water, its next challenge is, one of those main challenges is going to be, taking back the Jewish story because, in the last century, when they were busy doing this, they outsourced all of their Jewish needs, to a small, minority in Israel, which is called the you know, there’s it’s the ultra-orthodox and part of the extreme orthodox movements.
00:03:15:19 – 00:03:35:19
And now they want to, you know, connect with their Jewish, their Jewish heritage, that Jewish tradition. And every time they want to do that, they’re finding out that the people that represent Judaism, are getting more and more extreme. And so, they’re saying we want our Jewish identity is an integral part of our Israeli identity. How do we get access to it?
00:03:35:20 – 00:04:09:01
And there is a revolution that is really kind of bubbling underground, and it’s now starting to come out and it’s coming out in music, it’s coming out in film, it’s coming out in popular culture, it’s coming out in the education system. Coming out in foreign policy. And this is in effect, telling the story of that, revolution and also calling on those Israelis that haven’t yet joined the bandwagon, that the time has come to stop outsourcing their Judaism, but take responsibility for defining Judaism in Israel in the 21st century.
00:04:09:01 – 00:04:39:02
Because and this is, you know, we kind of kind of wrap it all up. Whereas in the previous century, whoever controlled the Israeli story controlled the Jewish story, it’s now changed. And whoever will control the Jewish story in Israel, they will control the Israeli story. And therefore, if the mainstream wants to take back control of the country, from extremists, who are, you know, who are challenging certain parts of the, you know, integral structures of the country, they will, first of all, have to reclaim the Jewish story tactics.
00:04:39:02 – 00:04:55:22
Well, there’s a lot to unpack there, but I wonder if you could start just kind of where we stay with the book just to tell us some of that. The main messages or kind of your main conclusions that you’re, that you’re reaching in terms of what the state of Israel or the kind of the government of the day needs to be doing so.
00:04:55:24 – 00:05:18:10
Yeah. Israel has defined itself as a Jewish and democratic state, and, in terms of democracy, you know, there’s a huge argument going on about what does a democracy mean? Is it a constitutional democracy? Is it a majority in democracy? Where do those two mix? And that’s obviously, you know, come over on to the streets as well.
00:05:18:10 – 00:05:34:06
And I’m sure many of the listeners in the UK are following very closely what’s been happening with that. But the debate is clear and people are choosing sides when it comes to the Jewish side of that equation. The majority of Israelis who want to be Jewish haven’t had the opportunity to really express what it is they mean by that.
00:05:34:12 – 00:05:56:09
Right. And that’s what the book is in effect, discussing about what this revolution is, where it’s come from, what is the content of it? Right? How does it affect what’s happening in, you know, from the children’s books that we read? I’ll just, you know, just let’s take it down to that level. When you’re reading a child that the book in at bedtime, right?
00:05:56:09 – 00:06:15:21
And they see someone lighting, Hanukkah. Right? Right. If they see that child with Cecile and a black kippah, they assume. Okay, it’s theirs. And if I want to do, I have to be like them. I can’t do it myself. Right? I’m going to outsource it to them. So, children’s books have to be the pictures in it have to be done appropriately so that you see it.
00:06:16:00 – 00:06:36:19
When it comes to teaching things in school, we have to, you know, the has to be done by ourselves. There’s a big difference between cooking in your own kitchen and ordering in takeaway and in effect, not much of the mainstream of Israeli Jewish population for too long has been ordering their Judaism by takeaway, and now they’re having to learn how to cook it in in their own kitchen.
00:06:36:21 – 00:06:59:05
Nice. I like the I like the analogy and kind of connected to the book, but also with your work that I mentioned in the beginning of business, of working for Jewish social Change. What are what are the priorities that you’re, you’re working on and campaigning on within that context? Sure. So, let’s look at it in kind of three main, legs on the, on the barstool.
00:06:59:11 – 00:07:32:05
Okay. You’ve got the, the world of, the of the life cycle. So, you know, from Brant Miller, David Abbott for, like, for girls, bar mitzvah, weddings, funerals and, weddings and divorces and then funerals. Right. That whole process is circumcision and circumcision. Yeah, exactly. So, so that whole process at the moment is still almost entirely controlled by a monopoly in Israel, right, such that, and that monopoly is supported by the police, by the way.
00:07:32:05 – 00:07:50:24
So, you know, if somebody tries to carry out a wedding in Israel outside of the halachic monopoly, the police can come and arrest them in the middle of the night. And that’s happened. Right. And this is in a modern Western state, right? So, you know, people have to be able to celebrate the most important events in their lives.
00:07:50:24 – 00:08:14:20
And also, obviously that has to be, a, the ability for men and women to have, equality in this process. You know, one of the big achievements of the 20th century was that women were able to find their place as equals with men. It’s all obviously, you know, we are different, but we also, equal, a lot of that is still going through the process in all different parts.
00:08:14:20 – 00:08:35:21
By the way, of the religious spectrum within. They also in parts of the more traditional Orthodox world that’s happening as well. But that has to come through because it’s affecting national law. It’s not just affecting religious law because those parts due to actually it’s a hangover from the British. So well done, Britain, together with the Turks under the millet system.
00:08:35:23 – 00:08:53:05
That’s still there. Okay. So that’s but yeah, just to put kind of as a parallel, you have the chief rabbi in England doesn’t if you marry outside of what the chief rabbi in England says, they can’t send the police to come and arrest you in Israel. They can. Right. That has to be changed to in the 21st century.
00:08:53:10 – 00:09:14:20
And it has really impact. You know, we’re seeing it now with the military conscription. They’re using the power of controlling our personal lives and all the, you know, emotional touch points in order to say, well, our Jewish story is better than, you know. So that’s the first leg. The second leg is the Jewish, the yearly cycle.
00:09:14:22 – 00:09:50:09
So, whether it’s the festivals, you know, Passover, shuffleboard, the, the Rosh Hashanah or the, you know, Independence Day. How we, how we, in effect, teach those how we celebrate those. And so, you know, if I’ll just take an example of, something that was done at the beginning of the found foundation of this day, which has now become embedded, but is being developed, is, you know, if you start from Passover, which is the big celebration of the movement from, slavery to freedom, what was then, set up afterwards?
00:09:50:15 – 00:10:13:03
It’s called the Holocaust, Memorial Day. So, it was done a couple of weeks afterwards to coincide with, the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. But the message that they tried to teach then the founders of the state was that this is the price that we paid for not having sovereignty. Then we have a couple of weeks later, a Remembrance Day, which is, you know, the price that we pay for sovereignty.
00:10:13:03 – 00:10:36:23
And then the next day we celebrate independence, which is a celebration of sovereignty that is in effect, the whole month. That whole process itself is going through a Jew deification, which is a positive thing in the sense that, you know, you’re announcing people fasting, a traditional Jewish motif on Holocaust day, you’re seeing people doing have delayed the traditional separation, which is done in the, in the summer festivals between, Remembrance Day and Independence Day.
00:10:36:23 – 00:10:56:08
So, on the one hand, you’re seeing that you deification of Israeli festivals, and at the same time, you’re seeing the Israeli unification of traditional Jewish festivals. So, you’re seeing people in the springtime at Passover going out, celebrating. You’re seeing at Hanukkah that we just celebrated, you know, Maccabee football team celebrating the Maccabees. You’re seeing a big, candle lightings on the street.
00:10:56:13 – 00:11:23:20
So, this whole process, whoever will control this Jewish story, will actually end up controlling the way that the whole of, of the calendar will be done and why. Whereas in the past, when the when the mainstream controlled this, you know, Holocaust Memorial Day was, was opposed violently by the halachic major, monopoly in Israel, they said, no, you’re going to do it on Tisha on traditional Remembrance Day, or the either the ninth of off or the 10th of ten.
00:11:23:22 – 00:11:42:09
And the founders said, no, we’re not going to do this. And when they stood and they made it happen, it happened. And by contrast, days that the other, you know, for example, Jerusalem Day hasn’t managed to catch on because it wasn’t done by the majority. So, it’s a huge a responsibility. But I’m, I’m like the majority has to lead on it.
00:11:42:15 – 00:12:10:12
So that’s that. And then the third, the third leg of the bar stool is the, Jewish, Israeli, bookshelf. Right. And in fact, going back from, the Bible through the Mishnah to the Talmud, through medieval philosophy and up until today. And the main point that we are trying to put across is that the Israeli story is not a rebellion against the Jewish stories.
00:12:10:12 – 00:12:39:15
It was once seen. Right? Rather, it is the continuation. It’s the natural continuation of the Jewish joy. It’s the next level. It’s the next chapter in the Jewish story that goes back to Abraham. Right? And therefore, we should see the Declaration of Independence was called in the Hebrew Megillah that smote okay as the sixth Megillah. In Jewish tradition, we have five McKillop and the only Megillah that the Jewish people have written and approved basically in the last 2000 years is the Megillah.
00:12:39:19 – 00:12:48:01
It’s not the Megillah of independence. And how do we, sanctify a text in the Jewish tradition? How do we do it?
00:12:48:03 – 00:13:00:09
How do we sanctify it? Well, it’s I mean, it traditionally would need the consensus of the, I would say of the Sanhedrin or, or some Jewish leadership to, to canonize it. But I’m not sure that’s what you’re getting at.
00:13:00:15 – 00:13:17:18
I am that’s exactly it. And what do they do? How do they canonize it? They argue about it. They say, no, this word means this, and this word means this and that and, and that’s what the missionary did to the Bible. And that’s then. Oh, I tell you what part the Navy the prophets did to bits of the Torah.
00:13:17:18 – 00:13:38:23
That’s what then the missionary did to the Torah. That’s what the Talmud did to the missionary. That’s what the, you know, out of the Rambam, so that the minute you’re arguing over what the words of the text are right, you are sanctifying it. And what we’re seeing now in Israeli society, this big battle where people are going out to the streets with the declaration of Independence, saying it means this to other people is not means this.
00:13:38:23 – 00:14:02:08
Some people are saying it doesn’t have the word democracy. And then other people said yes, but all its values are what we class as Western liberal democracy. That’s actually a very healthy discussion to be having. It’s sanctifying that sick, megillah. And we are trying to do it within the Jewish context because the way and if I go back, let’s just link this in with the second leg again, and then we’ll continue.
00:14:02:10 – 00:14:28:18
Every Jewish festival has three major elements. It has a family get together, right. It has special food, and it has some form of canonical text. So, if it’s to say tonight you get together, you eat the matzah and the bitter herbs and you read the Haggadah, right? If it’s shovel what you get together, you eat the milky foods and you read Ruth, if it’s Purim, you get together, you have the hamantaschen and you read right, Esther.
00:14:28:20 – 00:14:51:08
So, we now have that. We get together, we have the barbecue, some have it vegetarian, others not. And we have the sixth megillah. So, framing that and making an Israel the next in the next natural part is what we’re we are we are looking to do. And we think that will also have a huge impact on the relationship with Jewish communities around the world, because we understand that Israel does not stand alone.
00:14:51:08 – 00:15:19:14
It is the home of the global Jewish people, and not just of the Israeli Jewish people. And therefore, we have to be a, a light not only to the other nations, but a light unto the other Jewish communities around the world. Okay. Thank you. I mean, there’s a few things I want to pick up from that. But first of all, just to kind of, one thing you said about the kind of the, let’s say, the reconciliation of Jewish values and democracy, how do you what do you see kind of Jewish roots within democratic principles?
00:15:19:16 – 00:15:42:19
Excellent question. So very interestingly, do you know how many times the word democracy appears in the Declaration of Independence? Right. Not offhand, I don’t. Yeah, it doesn’t appear. It doesn’t appear. And it appeared in the draft and Ben-Gurion deleted it. And the reason that he deleted it was as follows. He said, when we mean democracy, what are we talking about?
00:15:42:19 – 00:16:07:13
We’re talking about freedom. We’re talking about the majority rules, but minorities have rights. We’re talking about no racism. We’re talking about no discrimination on the basis of gender, sex [right] colour. And he said, so you have ancient Israel and you have ancient Greece. In ancient Greece they called this democracy. We forget the fact that only about 20% of the population had that democracy and 80% were serfs / slaves.
00:16:07:19 – 00:16:37:02
Right. But that’s what was what came down to us through Western civilization. And we’ve called those values liberal democracy. Right? But in ancient Israel, we had the same ideas, and it was called ḥazonam shel nevi’ei Yisrael, it was the visions of the prophets of Israel. And we had a term called ha-ger, ha-yatom ve-ha-almanah, the convert, the outsider, okay, the orphan and the widow and that we were commanded to look after them.
00:16:37:02 – 00:16:58:01
So, he said, if I have these concepts internally within ancient Israel and within the Jewish tradition, I don’t need to borrow non-Jewish language and non-Jewish traditions to give put those ideas across. So, he deleted the word democracy and he said, we will live according to the vision of the prophets of Israel and spelled out what that meant. So, it’s very much in us.
00:16:58:01 – 00:17:19:08
And I take one further idea in that and the other, you know, real basic value of what we mean by Western democracy is that all humans are created equal, right? That’s really the basis of it. And we all have, rights by the nature of the fact that we’re humans and no other creatures. Right. That does not exist in most cultures in the world.
00:17:19:08 – 00:17:43:10
And when did Western culture get it from Western culture? Didn’t get it from ancient Greece. They got it from the Bible. They got it from the creation story. They got it from the idea of Salom Elohim that all humans were created in the image of God. Right. And that and then you can follow that through, whether in the Christian tradition, through Aquinas, through the Jewish tradition with Rambam, and through the Muslim, tradition, his wife and sin or whatever.
00:17:43:10 – 00:18:05:12
Right. But if you see where, then it has really become entered into popular Western thinking in France and then into the American Declaration of Independence. And they’re what where did they source it from? What is when they say that all humans are created equal, endowed. But. Right. Well, where the endowed by their creator, they are taking it from the Hebrew Bible.
00:18:05:18 – 00:18:37:14
And it’s very interesting that when you follow that through, when it makes it into the UN declaration of human right, they change the word creator for dignity, right by human. But in effect, that’s the source. So, if it’s those values already in the Jewish tradition, I don’t need to take Greek words right to use it. So again, that’s one of the things that we’re trying to do in Vienna is to show Israelis that these ideas are not, you know, one of the problems that they haven’t in a lot of the, we’ve seen this in the Arab world when they’ve tried to bring in, you know, Western democratic ideas.
00:18:37:14 – 00:19:07:11
They’ve been rejected because they’re seen as foreign, they’re seen as being brought in by people that are foreign to the local culture. What we’re trying to do is show that actually the ideas came out of ancient Israel. They are intrinsic to the Jewish tradition, and therefore they naturally flow within what we should be doing in Israel. Fantastic. I just want to pivot for a moment or maybe with a couple of questions, just to see whether the book and this thesis of the Jewish century, you mentioned it before, has relevance to Israeli foreign policy as well.
00:19:07:14 – 00:19:29:17
And I wondered if kind of in a broad stroke, you could give some examples of that. And then perhaps afterwards we’ll, we’ll delve into specific cases. Yeah, sure. So, yeah, this is, chapter five of the book talks all about the so and in fact, the Israeli century, the main story that Israel sold to the world in itself was this story of what’s called short they saw the Holocaust and the rebirth.
00:19:29:19 – 00:19:54:15
Right. And as a result of that, in terms of the, the foreign policy, it was built around this idea of we have to be strong and the nations around us will accept us on the basis that we’re stronger than them. Right. The graviton squeeze on wool that you’ve probably heard of. Right. And we set up structures around that, Holocaust Memorial Day was one of them.
00:19:54:15 – 00:20:15:12
Yad Vashem. Whenever foreign visitors come, they always have to go to Yad Vashem. It’s an integral part of the story. And that was the story that we told, right? As the last remaining Holocaust survivors are dying out, and as the younger generations are trying to understand what the future is. Okay, more and more, we’re seeing that Israeli, the Israeli story is now changing.
00:20:15:12 – 00:20:32:05
It doesn’t, you know, it’s not like, hunting the right the end of history. History never ends. It just keeps on going and changing. So, there’s never one point. But we now see we when we as we come into the Jewish century, now we’re seeing more and more. The story that Israel is telling is a mixture of two things.
00:20:32:10 – 00:20:57:00
On the one hand, it’s the start-up nation at the very front of technology in many fields, whether you know from cyber to life sciences, construction technology, which I’m spending a lot of time and invest in, and in, military, technologies as well. Okay. And at the same time, the Abraham Accords, these are the two stories, Startup Nation and the Abraham Accords.
00:20:57:04 – 00:21:21:00
And if I put those together, I, we now, we’ve gone from Holocaust and rebirth. We’re now selling what I call rooted modernity. The roots of Abraham with the modernity of technology. And this is very interestingly now where we are meeting with our Arab neighbours, because if you look at the peace treaties with, say, Egypt and Jordan, which were signed and those with the Palestinians, it didn’t quite work.
00:21:21:02 – 00:21:44:01
They were based on power and on economics. Right. Which are they? Power touches about, you know, half a percent of the population at the top, you know, political and military people and economics. Top touch is about the top 5%, but 95% of the people aren’t touched. So, in, in the in the Palestinian story, this didn’t work in the Egyptian and Jordanian stories.
00:21:44:01 – 00:22:05:22
Yes, we have peace treaties, but they’re called treaty and they’re called peace treaties. And the Abraham Accords. What was genius about it was they’re saying, actually, the story is, is now we have we accept you now because we have a joint, great grandfather. And therefore, we don’t have to argue about who the land belongs to.
00:22:05:22 – 00:22:25:10
Rather, it belongs to all of us. And the real story is how do we share it? How do we live it together? Now, that is within the context of the Middle East, and we’re seeing new lines, by the way, being drawn out and also within the Muslim world, right, where in the past it was Sunni Shiite. Now it’s becoming more, Abrahamic, countries versus the Islamist countries.
00:22:25:11 – 00:22:46:08
And we’re not going to go into that now. But you can follow it through, and you’ll see that Sunni and Shiite Islamists and there’s Abrahamic countries that are also on both sides. Right? So, and that’s a very interesting internal thing that but then when you take is, right, that idea of rooted modernity, right of the roots and being on the forefront of technology, this is what, Prime Minister Modi is trying to do in India.
00:22:46:14 – 00:23:06:22
I’m an ancient Hindu, civilization, but I want to be at the forefront of technology. This is what President XI is trying to do in China. I’ve got ancient Confucian, right. If I look at Europe, whether Christian Europe or whether even, you know, then obviously their roots go back to Judaism and even secular Europe. Their roots go back to ancient Greece, Rome and ancient Greece.
00:23:06:24 – 00:23:30:07
Who did they meet there? When they go back to their roots, they meet the Jews. And who did they write? It’s. They know their texts as well. They you know where the fall of Alexandria went. Yeah. In fact, that very interesting, the story of Samson and Delilah and the story of Hercules. There they were. Clearly it was what was influencing the other, there was a protest story before another, another time for that.
00:23:30:09 – 00:23:55:08
If you then go across, obviously to the United States as well, you know, the whether on the Christian, or whether on the secular stories, they’re always meeting that that Jewish story with the desire to be also not only with the roots, but at the forefront of technology and therefore in the Israeli century, whoever will control the Jewish story here will also be controlling, the, the Israeli story.
00:23:55:08 – 00:24:23:03
And I think if I just wrap just this piece up, there is a fascinating story with Christendom. There was a very important document called Nostra Tata done in the 1960s, which was, in effect, a theological acceptance of Israel by the Catholic world, which enabled a huge coming together of countries that before couldn’t accept Jewish sovereignty. I think the Abraham Accords is will, will, when they look back, will be the nostra tata of the Muslim world.
00:24:23:05 – 00:24:43:09
And tell me, a, do you think there’s any relevance, obviously coming from become with a, with a, a special place for Britain, Israel relations. Is there anything that you’re that your thesis kind of reflects and can help guide us, as we look to improve those ties? Absolutely. I think, you know, Britain has huge importance.
00:24:43:11 – 00:25:14:17
First of all, you know, in, in, in, in and of itself as a major, you know, high tech, hub of the world, a major financial hub of the world. So, so many things flow through the UK. And obviously this is all happening in English. But also, if you look in terms of, you know, the UK’s role within the Middle East, both as a former ruler of large chunks of it and, and a country in which many of the, many of the leaders, both political, military and economic, were educated in the UK system.
00:25:14:19 – 00:25:44:19
The influence is massive and the UK can use that for good. It is doing that sometimes behind the scenes, sometimes, you know, in front of the cameras. You know, even a former prime minister is trying to do lots of, good work bringing the different sides there. All together. And, and I hope that, Israel will, be able and bring together Israel with the moderate parts of the Middle East will remain something which is relevant to all the different political parties in the UK.
00:25:44:19 – 00:26:08:24
I think. I think that one of the things, the UK has so far done quite successfully is that it hasn’t gone down a really Partizan route despite that. You know, I’ve obviously I’m aware of all the protests that are going on. But, you know, when the prime Minister came in and took over the Labor Party, one of the first things he tried to do was root out the deep, evil anti-Semitism from the party.
00:26:09:01 – 00:26:30:20
Which, you know, I commend him for and is immensely important. And he’s looking for ways to try and integrate, Israel in the Abrahamic countries into the region. Obviously, the UK has stood by Israel through the really difficult parts of the war, both at the beginning when it sent in its own warships, also when the Iranians were attacking the UK Army base in Cyprus has been very, very helpful.
00:26:31:00 – 00:26:53:21
And there’s obviously a lot of strategic dialogs. I, I by com helps facilitate, you know, parts of it both at the military level and at the economic level in the diplomatic level. And, you know, I’m very, very grateful for everything which the UK is doing. Thank you. Well said. Just also just drawing on your own personal experience, I know that you, you’ve lived and worked in Egypt and in Turkey.
00:26:54:01 – 00:27:26:14
I just wondered kind of both, both in terms of the, the philosophical lessons, but kind of also practical lived experiences. What you can tell us about your own, your own, your own experience in terms of kind of their relations to Israel, perhaps on a people, to people level. Wow. So, yeah. And say I lived about 20 years ago, I, I lived in Kyiv, for a year, for a year and a bit working in the qualified industrial zones, which was an economic, project between, in the, in the Sinai.
00:27:26:16 – 00:27:44:10
I know it was a on the 6th of October and in the 10th of run, they were in primarily in the textile industry. Have it been part of an American push that was also, by the way, an EU agreement. They were trying to do something similar, but it was the American market. It was more interesting to the Egyptians.
00:27:44:12 – 00:28:06:11
I’m sorry, the Europeans, it’s just the way that it’s just the way they work. Yeah, I, I actually think, you know, some of the things that we discussed before, understanding that economics alone is not enough. The theory was if you can create enough stakeholders economically, then that will help develop the peace. I don’t really think that that’s happened.
00:28:06:13 – 00:28:40:11
The factories that I was working in there often hit the Israeli part of what they were doing, and they actually had quite a lot of bitterness that the Americans were saying to me, if you want a free market, duty free access to, our markets, you have to work with those Israelis next door. The Egyptians were saying, why, you know, and, and so, having that joint story, an interesting FSA that tried to do this at the beginning, and not many people know this, but he had a project in Santa Catarina, which is in the Sinai, where historically one of the theories is Mount Sinai was there to set
00:28:40:11 – 00:29:00:06
up a, church, a synagogue and a mosque. He understood this Abrahamic story. He was then assassinated in an old spit. Unfortunately, but now, as I say, it’s being re recreated. There’s a big gap. The Egyptians are very close to what’s going on in Gaza. They’re very unhappy. On the other hand, though, obviously they’re fighting the Muslim Brotherhood.
00:29:00:08 – 00:29:22:20
But it, it as long as this war is going on, there’s always going to be struggles. As I say, Israel should be working a lot closer with the Egyptians, rather than with Qatar, just because, you know, we have a direct border with them. They have a lot more experience, fighting the Muslim Brotherhood. And actually, I think the UK could learn a lot from the Egyptians regarding the, the Muslim Brotherhood.
00:29:22:22 – 00:29:43:01
They should really think the Egyptians in the UAE about the dangers, that this ideology has, it’s parts of the UK defence establishment are waking up to this, but they should be listening. Turkey is a different story. Turkey is now controlled by the Muslim Brotherhood. The AK AKP is the, you know, Turkish branch of the Muslim Brotherhood.
00:29:43:03 – 00:30:07:02
And again, has a big vision of setting up a, you know, the kind of, the caliphate again, with him at the centre of it as part of a Muslim and Muslim style NATO. I think he’s making, a huge, error in a lot of ways do I’m seeing a lot of the top Turkish, you know, brightest and brightest leaving, in fact, that many moving to London.
00:30:07:02 – 00:30:28:19
By the way, I’m seeing a lot of very talented Turks moving to the UK. And, you know, if you look at how does that affects even economic policy, you know, as soon as you’re not rooted, then you, when they inflation started rising in any normal Western country with sensible monetary policy, when inflation rises, you put up the interest rate to control inflation.
00:30:28:19 – 00:30:50:19
What did he do? He reduced the interest rate. Why? Because he wanted to make certain people in his militia happy. Right. This is the problem when, you know, extremist ideologues, take over a government, I think, perhaps I’ll just close this off by saying there’s a, you know, the famous British saying of power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
00:30:50:19 – 00:31:12:19
I think when he came in, he had some very good ideas. He was taking Turkey in the right direction. But unfortunately, the absolute power that he’s done has created, you know, absolute, corruption. And so therefore, I think the Turks will be in a better position when they can move on. Yeah, indeed. Indeed. When is your book coming out in English?
00:31:12:21 – 00:31:37:09
I’m currently in discussions with various distributors. I will probably be in the middle of 2026. That’s the. That’s the plan. Okay. Fantastic. And just before we go, is there anything else that I’ve missed that, that you should be telling our audience? Yeah, I just perhaps, a comment, you know, I know because it deals with, you know, the whole British, community.
00:31:37:09 – 00:31:58:05
But I also just think, a word regarding the Jewish community in the UK, which I know is going through a very difficult period after what happened in Manchester, over the High holidays. And, you know, what they’ve been seeing on the streets of London and, you know, various threats and having seen what happened in Australia as well, I understand there is a certain nerve and nervousness there.
00:31:58:05 – 00:32:22:03
And they’re very concerned that Israel is moving also away, is almost becoming more of a traditional Middle Eastern country and which they’re quite concerned about. Yeah. They you know, there is a huge and deep commitment across the Israeli spectrum to look after Jewish communities to work with, you know, governments and respecting governments, but working with it together with Jewish communities.
00:32:22:03 – 00:32:46:00
We understand the importance of that relationship. We understand that it has to go in both directions. And we hope that it can that bridge will continue for another generation and another generation, because there is, you know, throughout the whole of Jewish history, even if you go back to biblical times, there were Jewish communities in Elephantine in, in Egypt that have been Jewish communities in Babylon, in Iraq for thousands of years.
00:32:46:00 – 00:33:09:19
So, one of the great things about when, you know, is that there’s always going to be Jewish diasporas, and we should be strengthening each other. The diaspora should be, should be strengthening the national homeland and the national homeland should be strengthening the diaspora. And certainly myself, my colleagues and all the organizations that I’m involved in are fully committed to it, both for ourselves, for our children, and for our children’s children.
00:33:09:21 – 00:33:17:00
Fantastic. Very well said. It’s been a pleasure talking to you today, Terry. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you, Richard. Thank you. Listeners.