In this episode, we look at Egypt’s role in the shifting post-war picture around Gaza. Recorded during a media briefing, Daniel J. Levy speaks with Ruth Wasserman Lande. They discuss the implications of emerging plans for Gaza’s future governance, Egypt’s approach to Rafah and Sinai, and the wider regional influence of actors including Turkey and Qatar.
Ruth Wasserman Lande is an Arab affairs commentator. She previously served as Israel’s Deputy Chief of Mission in Cairo and was a member of the Knesset for Blue and White, where she founded the Knesset caucus for the promotion of the Abraham Accords.
Transcript
(This transcript has been automatically generated by AI — please excuse any potential errors.)
00:00:06:24 – 00:00:36:02
Daniel J. Levy
Good afternoon. It is 18th of February 2026, and my name is Daniel Levy, programs manager at BICOM, the Britain Israel Communications and Research Centre. Today we’re being joined by Ruth Wasserman Lande, who is currently an Arab affairs commentator, working across the Israeli and international media space. She also previously served, as is, as Israel’s DCM in Cairo and as a member of the Knesset with the Blue and White Party from 21 to 22.
00:00:36:04 – 00:00:46:14
Daniel J. Levy
During that time, she also founded the caucus. Most of the Abraham Accords and previously served as an advisor to President Shimon Peres. Thank you so much for joining Ruth. Over to you.
00:00:46:17 – 00:01:03:01
Ruth Wasserman Lande
So, thank you very much, Daniel and friends. Basically, I think that the situation at the moment, one doesn’t have to be a genius to, to understand is very, very, precarious.
00:01:03:02 – 00:01:37:09
Ruth Wasserman Lande
Let’s put it this way. On the southern border whilst we all await and, I believe, not that I had, WhatsApp from the president of the United States, but I believe we are moving closer to a significant, action, regarding the Islamic Republic of Iran, which, if you wish, I can say a few words about later, but the focus is less, so to speak, on the southern, arena of Israel.
00:01:37:09 – 00:02:10:04
Ruth Wasserman Lande
And the entire area of, the Gaza Strip, Egypt, the West Bank and so on. And what I feel is happening there is, almost in between the lines, things are happening that are very, very, very dangerous. And I’ll explain first, we have this so-called is board or board of Peace or whatever, something of peace.
00:02:10:06 – 00:02:15:03
Ruth Wasserman Lande
And I say this in this manner because,
00:02:15:05 – 00:03:13:15
Ruth Wasserman Lande
The people who sit on this board are very, very far from peaceful, and very obviously, the elements that are inherent in this, agreement or understanding, most of which is not transparent. Okay. Are very, very worrying because whilst there are still armed operatives belonging to the Hamas on the ground, we’re talking about a relatively small piece of land, the Gaza Strip and the is a presence, a significant presence of Hamas operatives, armed operatives on the ground, not only not disarmed, but openly declaring that they will not disarm.
00:03:13:15 – 00:03:40:19
Ruth Wasserman Lande
And this is completely connected by the way, to the question of Egypt and the entire area surrounding it. That’s why I’m opening with that. But we also forget that at the same time we have the Islamic Jihad, and the Islamic Jihad is also the, to the t believe me, no love for Israel, Jews, the West, anything of the sort.
00:03:40:23 – 00:04:12:11
Ruth Wasserman Lande
This is a hardcore terrorist organization created, funded, encouraged and supported by the Islamic Republic of Iran. Whereas Hamas is more supported also that Islamic Republic of Iran, but also by Turkey, Sunni Turkey and Qatar. So, we have armed Hamas, armed Islamic Jihad, we have Egypt training 30 to 40,000. We’re talking about the Gaza Strip. Yes. Not England.
00:04:12:13 – 00:04:42:06
Ruth Wasserman Lande
30 to 40,000, Palestinian police. Okay. Let’s just let that digest or sink in. In the UK, police don’t have arms, or at least the vast majority of UK police. They have batons and other things but not arms unless they’re counter-terrorism police. So, these police people are being trained by Egypt on Sinai in the Sinai on Egyptian soil.
00:04:42:08 – 00:05:06:02
Ruth Wasserman Lande
In preparation, they will be armed over and above the Hamas, over and above the Islamic Jihad. They will be put in that soup together with the other armed people. And just for those who forgot, in 2005, the same thing happened. We went out, dug out the graves. No Jewish bone was left in the Gaza Strip, handed it over to Fatah.
00:05:06:04 – 00:05:37:12
Ruth Wasserman Lande
Palestinians from the West Bank under Abu Mazen Ahmed. Armed. We didn’t leave them there unarmed, and the Hamas just massacred them and threw them off the rooftops. And they went to the IDF soldiers and they took over. So, what do they expect to happen now? Yes, there will be a lot of infighting, but also there will be a huge amount of people with weapons in that little geography.
00:05:37:14 – 00:06:09:21
Ruth Wasserman Lande
And as if that wasn’t enough, they’re talking of bringing, 8000 Indonesians, soldiers, armed Indonesian soldiers. I have nothing against Indonesia. God bless the Indonesians. But 8000 more soldiers armed. And this is just one odd of the so-called, I don’t know, Peace Corps, whatever. I don’t know what this name is exactly into that little place that’s supposed to be rebuilt.
00:06:09:23 – 00:06:39:00
Ruth Wasserman Lande
This is a mishmash of a lot of people with a lot of arms serving and about all of the Muslims. Again, I have nothing against Muslims, but just to understand the nature of what we are seeing unfolding. And all of this is happening when the, let’s say the headmaster was, the caretaker of this charade is Turkey.
00:06:39:02 – 00:07:06:00
Ruth Wasserman Lande
Okay. Now, Turkey was saying very openly that it should, free Jerusalem from occupied forces, which is us. In other words, castles belly by declaration. I mean, I don’t know how else to see it is de facto the bringer and the and the taker of everything that’s happening in the Gaza Strip. Now, in comes Egypt, right?
00:07:06:01 – 00:07:42:12
Ruth Wasserman Lande
Because Egypt has a border. The only other country except Israel, that has a border with a strip that refused, refused, point blank to taken back in 1979 when Israel and Egypt signed a peace agreement. We wanted to give back the Gaza to the Egyptians. They said no. Okay. They knew why they said no. The same Egypt that has seven, barriers from Rafah to prevent one Palestinian from going inside Egypt.
00:07:42:12 – 00:08:10:01
Ruth Wasserman Lande
The same Egyptians that do not allow and did not allow, Palestinians to go outside while there was fighting and a war going on so that they wouldn’t get hurt, not necessarily into Egypt, but even as, transfer, to another place that was willing to take them. And there were a lot of Palestinians that wanted to go as well.
00:08:10:05 – 00:08:45:18
Ruth Wasserman Lande
Egypt would not allow the same Egypt that has a peace agreement with Israel for over 40 years, but has allowed smuggling of weapons by agreement, not by turning the other, cheek, but by agreement with the Hamas throughout the years leading to October 7th, understanding that this was what they intended to do because they made a pact with them that was unspoken of don’t touch Sinai and the bad people that we have within Egypt.
00:08:45:22 – 00:09:20:13
Ruth Wasserman Lande
We don’t want terrorism inside. And we don’t mind if you weaken Israel, that’s fine with us. In fact, the policy aligns with that. These same Egyptians are now training 30 to 40,000 so-called Palestinian police that are not less indoctrinated in the West Bank than the Palestinians in Gaza. The indoctrination is not different. It is a little bit, a little bit more religious oriented in the Gaza Strip, rather than in the West Bank.
00:09:20:14 – 00:09:48:14
Ruth Wasserman Lande
In the West Bank, there is more emphasis on nationalism, a little bit less on religious issues, but more or less we are talking of the same indoctrination, and this is hardcore incitement and indoctrination. All of this is happening with Egypt not only sitting there and doing nothing but being a very active player in the scenario. And in the meantime, nobody speaks about it.
00:09:48:14 – 00:10:23:10
Ruth Wasserman Lande
I’ve been speaking about it on every interview on television since October 8th. There is an infiltration into the highest decision-making circles in Egypt by Turkey and Qatar. Now, that is almost counterintuitive, because Egyptian regime and Muslim Brotherhood are against one another, but Egyptians and Hamas are also against one another. And that didn’t stop them from making the agreement to not interfere with in Egypt, with Muslim Brotherhood and related terrorist organizations.
00:10:23:16 – 00:10:58:05
Ruth Wasserman Lande
And they will allow and even encourage the smuggling of weapons into the Gaza Strip. That does not stop Egypt from actually training, Palestinians. They don’t like the Palestinians. They don’t want the Palestinians inside the territory. They’ve made it abundantly clear, very physically, abundantly clear. But they don’t, they’re not sitting on the fence. They’re actually training them to go with weapons into the Gaza Strip, the same Egypt that hates the Muslim Brotherhood and hunted them is being infiltrated.
00:10:58:05 – 00:11:28:08
Ruth Wasserman Lande
I sign my name under this being infiltrated, not for 1 or 2 days already by Turkey and Qatar. This is Muslim Brotherhood supporting, countries by money and equipment. And if you look at Sudan, they are fighting with Turkey and Qatar in Sudan supporting the Muslim Brotherhood. So yes, the is the duality. Yes. It’s counterintuitive, but it is what it is.
00:11:28:10 – 00:11:56:09
Ruth Wasserman Lande
And if you also look at the very, very, very difficult and tense relations between Egypt and the Islamic Republic of Iran since 1979, the Shah was buried, is buried, in fact, in a very, very beautiful place in the middle of Cairo. It really irritated, the Ayatollah regime and Islam who murdered Sadat, the Egyptian president. He has a huge name in Tehran named after him.
00:11:56:11 – 00:12:29:12
Ruth Wasserman Lande
And there were a lot of espionage, intrigue, issues and drama episodes with, Islamic Republic of Iran ambassadors kicked out of Egypt throughout the years because of espionage. There’s no love lost between Shiite, Iran and Sunni Egypt. Yet in the 12-day war between Israel and Iran, when, missiles were landing on Israeli civilians and on strategic assets, Egypt went out and by the highest people said, we are with Iran.
00:12:29:14 – 00:12:58:16
Ruth Wasserman Lande
They didn’t innuendo it. They didn’t say it in a kind of a nice sort of, diplomatic way. They said it as it is and that already and I said it then should have raised a red flag. This doesn’t make sense. Something doesn’t make sense because there is an infiltration. There is an infiltration of various, Islamic elements into Egypt.
00:12:58:16 – 00:13:33:10
Ruth Wasserman Lande
And there is a different coalition currently being, let’s say created, and that is Turkey and Qatar at the top of it. And secondarily, that is Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and perhaps others, I think the Palestinians as well, again, to varying degrees. But I believe that Egypt and Saudi Arabia, under the radar screen of real understanding, on the part of the West.
00:13:33:16 – 00:14:16:04
Ruth Wasserman Lande
And that’s very, very worrying to me because Egypt, with its extensive, you know, build-up of military presence underground and over the ground. And just recently, a couple of days ago, a new chief of staff was, appointed by Sisi, very specific personality, very worrying person and personality and, a very worrying, war of act to build this presence in the Sinai when, it’s biologically it’s not analysis, it’s not commentary.
00:14:16:09 – 00:14:42:00
Ruth Wasserman Lande
This isn’t it’s clear. It’s not, something we can pretend not to see anyway. We don’t have any privilege to pretend not to see it, but it’s there. But over and above that, there is a very, very clear act of war, in my opinion. I know for us to see it when on a daily basis, 3040 drones fly from Egypt to Israel.
00:14:42:02 – 00:15:11:06
Ruth Wasserman Lande
You know, crazy, drones with weapons that go to the Bedouin, you know, Mafia infrastructure in the south of Israel. And the Egyptian government is doing nothing about it. Now, if we reverse for a second the situation and just imagine, let’s imagine Israeli Bedouins, okay? From our side, from the Negev. They do the same.
00:15:11:06 – 00:15:39:20
Ruth Wasserman Lande
They take drones and they actually, you know, make them cross the border and, dispatch, weapons to ISIS in Sinai. And the Israeli government is so busy because we do have eight. What’s going on? It doesn’t stop it. You can you even imagine the scenario? It’s unimaginable. It cannot happen. It’s, it’s an act of war.
00:15:39:20 – 00:16:10:12
Ruth Wasserman Lande
It’s because it’s barely. And that is not addressed enough. Israel has been very, very cautious about the Egyptian ego and standing and respect. And let’s not misunderstand me. I do not belittle the very important strategic agreement between Israel and Egypt. No, but there are certain acts that are acts of war that Israel has absolutely zero margin, an ability to not tackle.
00:16:10:14 – 00:16:34:06
Ruth Wasserman Lande
And it’s very, very worrying. Very, very worrying. And I believe that the coalition that is currently in creation is something that is currently overlooked because of other arenas like Iran and so on, and it is tied in with what is happening, in the Gaza Strip in these days, which is added to what is happening in the West Bank.
00:16:34:06 – 00:17:11:00
Ruth Wasserman Lande
I mean, the two arenas together are, the horrific a no country in the right mind would for one second be able to deal with it. I’ll give you one more, fact, which I think is relevant. There’s been a huge uproar, against, what this government in Israel has tried to do to legalize, the West Bank and, the fact that, too, to allow Israeli law to be the law of the land there and there was a big uproar and so on.
00:17:11:02 – 00:17:35:14
Ruth Wasserman Lande
And I just want to remind you, the entire area, okay, which is from the river to the sea, can just I mean, for those who don’t remember the map, it’s from the river to the from the Jordan River to the sea. That’s what we’re talking about. That’s 45 miles. Okay. If we take away the West Bank, Judea and Samaria, whatever you want to call it, that’s nine miles.
00:17:35:16 – 00:17:52:01
Ruth Wasserman Lande
That’s indefensible. Just, you know, not commentary, not analysis, not political opinion. It’s plain. Any military expert will say that it’s indefensible. It’s very, very, very narrow. So that’s it’s.
00:17:52:07 – 00:18:18:04
Daniel J. Levy
Great. Thank you for that. Good as ever. Ruth. First question for me before we sort of open up to broader discussion from the floor when you were working in Cairo as an Israeli diplomat, what was your relationship like with the Egyptian counterparts? How were you received as an Israeli government official and based on what you saw? Ruth, how do you think that has, transferred to 26, given how important relations are governments come up, particularly around Gaza?
00:18:18:06 – 00:18:19:17
Daniel J. Levy
And the Rafah crossing.
00:18:19:21 – 00:18:23:17
Ruth Wasserman Lande
I think that the relations between Israel and Egypt have been very,
00:18:23:17 – 00:18:52:12
Ruth Wasserman Lande
Fragile, for a very long time. My stay there from 2003 to 2006 was a long time ago, and I was the epitome of all evil because there was Jewish Israeli, a representative of the Israeli government as a diplomat. And it was tough. I mean, I wasn’t accepted, you know, there was all there was the social issues or the conspiracy theories, the fact that they learned that we are the enemy.
00:18:52:14 – 00:19:12:21
Ruth Wasserman Lande
That was one part of it. And then there was the official part of it where we were not allowed to step foot in the Arab League, or actually any university except the American University. And there were very, very, very few people that we could actually meet to discuss things very unlike the Egyptian, diplomats in Israel.
00:19:12:21 – 00:19:42:06
Ruth Wasserman Lande
They didn’t have that at all. In fact, they have the exact opposite. Nonetheless, the importance of the relations is, is unquestionable. There needs to be a stronger channel in between the leaders for whatever happens at whatever time, and the interests are and need to be aligned. This is a key. But the situation is very, very precarious.
00:19:42:06 – 00:20:20:24
Ruth Wasserman Lande
It was. And it became worse since October 7th. Egypt is anything but stood beside Israel. Anything but. And I remind you; this is the same Israel that sent planes into, Egyptian. You know, airspace, as per their request, to fight ISIS for them. Nothing in return, nothing in return? Yes. Nothing in return. I agree. And remind everybody just in case they forgot we didn’t make an issue of it so that Egypt would not be embarrassed, God forbid, in international circles.
00:20:21:01 – 00:20:40:10
Ruth Wasserman Lande
And the same Egypt has done nothing, nothing for Israel. When our people were murdered, massacred, burnt, kidnaped, nothing. And if anybody wants to tell me that the mediation was for Israel, we can have a separate conversation about that.
00:20:40:12 – 00:20:42:24
Daniel J. Levy
Okay. Great. Thank you so much.