In this episode, Richard Pater speaks with Samer Sinijlawi about Palestinian politics. Sinijlawi outlines why he believes the recent Palestinian local elections were so significant and what the results reveal about public frustration with both Hamas and President Abbas. He outlines why reform is long overdue and must begin with a new democratic mandate. They also discuss Gaza, the disarmament of Hamas, the need to rebuild Israeli-Palestinian trust.
Samer Sinijlawi is a Palestinian political activist and the founding chairman of the Jerusalem Development Fund. Born in the Old City of Jerusalem, he became politically active during the First Intifada and later emerged as a leading voice calling for Palestinian reform, democracy, and renewed engagement between Palestinian and Israeli moderates.
Transcript
(This transcript has been automatically generated by AI — please excuse any potential errors.)
00:00:07:00 – 00:00:34:18
Richard Pater
Hello and welcome to this latest BICOM podcast. I’m Richard Pater, the director of BICOM, and today is Wednesday the 6th of May. Today’s episode focuses on the Palestinians, their internal politics, how to reach an agreement with Israel and the regional dimension. And to discuss this, I’m delighted to welcome Samer Sinijlawi, a Palestinian political activist and the founding chairman of the Jerusalem Development Fund.
00:00:34:21 – 00:00:37:16
Richard Pater
Samer, thank you very much indeed for joining me.
00:00:37:18 – 00:00:39:15
Samer Sinijlawi
Thank you. Good morning.
00:00:39:17 – 00:00:51:11
Richard Pater
So perhaps we could start and you could just briefly introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about your background and how and what context you became a political activist.
00:00:51:13 – 00:01:24:11
Samer Sinijlawi
I am a Palestinian who was born in the Old City of Jerusalem 53 years ago, and during my childhood, the First Intifada erupted in 1987, and I was part of the Palestinians who participated in that. And I was one of the kids throwing stones and participating in the ministrations in my city. And this led me to a five-year jail in Israeli prisons.
00:01:24:13 – 00:02:08:10
Samer Sinijlawi
And then I became a leader of the youth, the main political party, Palestinian politics. And I started to be in charge of relations with some Israeli organizations, where I started developing more of my understanding to the politics and the Israeli society. Today, I am a voice of opposition inside, calling for reform and democracy, something that has been too much demanded strongly by the Palestinian people about an almost no action has been taken on that regard.
00:02:08:15 – 00:02:41:10
Samer Sinijlawi
Just to remind the listeners that the last Palestinian national elections was held 20 years ago, the president himself was elected 21 years ago for a term of four years. President Abbas but he continued setting point himself until today at the age of 91 years. And we still are waiting for a next opportunity where we can, you know, cast a vote and express our opinion about who’s going to represent us and lead us.
00:02:41:10 – 00:03:11:13
Samer Sinijlawi
So, and I think this this should be a major priority for Palestinians. You know, lack of leadership is a challenge that is facing us. We can see it every day in the lots of problems and challenges that we are facing, and yet we cannot find somebody that is keen to put enough energy and sort of how to find ways out of these challenges for, for the Palestinian people.
00:03:11:13 – 00:03:42:07
Samer Sinijlawi
So, I’m, I am focusing on reform and democracy, and I think reform and democracy, they can be interpreted only in one-word elections. There is no reform list. You know, all this illusion of countries, European, including the UK, that comes with a list of procedures and say if the ticks all these items on that list, they can get the certificate of being reform and everything is going to be okay.
00:03:42:08 – 00:04:22:06
Samer Sinijlawi
This is short sighted. Second, I, I focus a lot in changing the way we, both Palestinians and Israelis think on this conflict. I think this conflict is becoming more than it is. An Israeli Palestinian conflict is becoming more a moderate against radicals, conflict from bossa. So, there is a way that we Palestinians can find partners inside Israel. And I think the Israelis need to understand that, yes, there is a partner on the Palestinian side.
00:04:22:06 – 00:04:57:18
Samer Sinijlawi
They can find partners on the Palestinian side. And that the famous statement of former Israeli prime minister who Barak after the Camp David peace talks, there is no partner is not valid. It’s not exact. Okay. Maybe to that negotiation there was no partner. I don’t want to argue into this, but it’s not something that is dominant, permanent that Palestinians can always be accused of having no partners in whatever is possible to help both of us exit this conflict.
00:04:57:18 – 00:05:07:13
Samer Sinijlawi
So, I focus on these two lines of politics. And.
00:05:07:15 – 00:05:12:19
Samer Sinijlawi
Among these titles, there is a lot of details to be discussed.
00:05:12:21 – 00:05:27:12
Richard Pater
Absolutely. Maybe I could start off and follow up just to get your perspective. How significant were the the local elections that we saw last week and what can we learn about them through the current status of Palestinian politics?
00:05:27:14 – 00:06:05:24
Samer Sinijlawi
What these are a very, very important elections. And I will give you my own reading to these elections. And I think it is an in-depth reading because I have been involved in for months in the details that are related to these elections, because I have been sponsoring and participating and helping among lots of other Palestinians in supporting certain lists or creating certain lists these elections.
00:06:05:24 – 00:07:03:06
Samer Sinijlawi
So, I got the whole picture in detail. Observation number one, the turnout out of almost 1 million. Plus, what if there was a ten out of 53%? This 53% turnout comes at the time when Hamas jihadists, Popular Front, Democratic Front, all the radical camp of Palestinian politics called followed by called seriously, intensively. The reason for the by court is that the new law of elections has requested a written commitment of each participant in this elections to recognize the agreements between PLO and this and indirectly recognizing the State of Israel.
00:07:03:06 – 00:07:44:24
Samer Sinijlawi
And that radical camp avoided this because they are totally not recognizing these agreements as the results. So, despite this call of boycott FC, three people participated. This does not mean that the radical can con controls 47% of the Palestinian society, because among the 47%, half of them simply don’t care about any election. They did not show up. Not because they are they will not show up even if the radical camp called and support in that election.
00:07:45:00 – 00:08:23:19
Samer Sinijlawi
So, the radical camp in Palestinian politics is less than 25%. And this is a new indication. It’s a very important indication. This is not Posner, its actual figures. It has been tested in big scale. Second observation, the amazing success of the Palestinian Central Election Commission, where it has succeeded administratively, technically and professionally to organize these elections not only in the West Bank but also in Gaza.
00:08:23:21 – 00:08:57:11
Samer Sinijlawi
The city of Bella participated in these elections. The city of did not receive a big hit during the war in Gaza because it’s really ground invasion did not reach to that city. So, it’s in shape. And the Central Palestinian Election Commission decided to include that city in Gaza in particular, in those elections, there were 16,000 voters who came from under the plastic tents and showed up and cast their votes.
00:08:57:13 – 00:09:39:14
Samer Sinijlawi
It means that there is a demand for election. It means that we Palestinians are capable, under very difficult conditions, to organize a free and fair election. Loading. This very severe conditions of Gaza, taking into consideration that there was 100% under Hamas control. Yet Hamas allowed that elections and immediately transferred power to the newly elected municipal council and mayor, which means that the transformation of power in Gaza started because of a ballot and a vote, not because of the Trump peace plan initiative.
00:09:39:15 – 00:10:23:06
Samer Sinijlawi
This came first. The church from the ground came faster than the international efforts to do a change in Gaza. So, the success, the turnout and third misread reading for that election is the results. Wherever the official list of Fatah was challenged by any other list, it was defeated. Mostly some cases not, but mostly well. They have won elections in 26 municipalities out of no competition.
00:10:23:07 – 00:10:56:11
Samer Sinijlawi
They were alone. Okay, so take this portion out. The rest of it. They have been in a majority receiving defeat. This means that where the change is happening in Gaza and the municipality controlled by Hamas, when change is happening on the West Bank, facing lists controlled by President Abbas, the public opinion says, I’m fed up with both. I’m fed up with Hamas.
00:10:56:11 – 00:11:29:18
Samer Sinijlawi
I’m fed up with Abbas. We would like to see something different. I am in UK. You can imagine a similar situation that recently has faced the conservatives, where there was a very big drop of, of, of, of their support in the street because the British people was not happy about their performance and they voted something else. Here in Palestinian politics, people are fed up with Hamas and Abbas, and they are looking for alternatives.
00:11:29:19 – 00:12:23:09
Samer Sinijlawi
And these alternatives, whenever they show, they gain trust of the public opinion. So, this is the summary of these elections. The conclusion is that I think it’s time, it’s overdue, that Palestinians need to be allowed to have their national elections, legislative and presidential. There should be a change in the current political literature, present the Palestinian people and did not succeed in achieving any good results in their lives, not only when it comes to the challenges that are related to Israel, but also internally when it comes to services, to healthcare, to education, to other issues that are not directly related to the Israeli occupation.
00:12:23:11 – 00:12:27:02
Samer Sinijlawi
That’s how I read these elections, which.
00:12:27:04 – 00:12:39:10
Richard Pater
And so on from that. What are the conclusions that you draw, or what are the steps that need to happen to see elections take place for the national legislature and the and the president?
00:12:39:12 – 00:13:11:06
Samer Sinijlawi
Well, I have had the opportunity of meeting some policymakers, British officials, and I said the international community needs to push these elections, need to force this election. It will not happen voluntary. And the Palestinian people do not have the ability to pressure for these elections. We cannot mobilize ourselves. There are 1200 checkpoints in the West Bank that separates every community from the community next door.
00:13:11:08 – 00:13:46:13
Samer Sinijlawi
So, you cannot mobilize people. There is a lot of security control over political activism in Palestine, because this is the mainstream policy of President Abbas and his regime. So, the respect for democracy should come as a condition forced by the international community. Now, when we say something like this, most of the policymakers all over the world, including your government here in the UK, they will say, but this is internal issue.
00:13:46:14 – 00:14:11:06
Samer Sinijlawi
We cannot interfere. And it’s it raises a question mark because why do you interfere then in our textbooks? Why do you interfere then in the salaries to the prisoners? They are also internal issues. It’s not that I am not happy you are interfering. It’s good you are interfering. I’m not happy that you are picking and choosing from the internal issues.
00:14:11:07 – 00:14:35:11
Samer Sinijlawi
What things to interfere are not things to exclude from your scope of interference. If you want to interfere, interfere in the whole package. You are pulling the long strings. Pushing a change in the textbook will not, for example, change the discussion in the classroom. If there will be no change in leadership, there will be no reform because it’s in the mentality of the leadership.
00:14:35:12 – 00:15:10:02
Samer Sinijlawi
It’s in the procedures, the policies, it’s in the narrative, in the media and the in the way that the public life is managed in Palestine. And this should be changed from the root. We need a new blood that understands what kind of steps need to be taken in order to provide our people with a better service and better quality of life, and what kind of steps should be taken in order to change the dynamics, the terrible dynamics of relation between us and the Israelis, we need to find a way to handle these relations.
00:15:10:02 – 00:15:38:01
Samer Sinijlawi
We cannot always say that they are not enabling us to do anything, so we simply excuse ourselves from being responsible on anything. If you cannot do anything. Why are you in power? Just leave. I cannot understand the leaders that say I am your leader. But you know I cannot do anything but let you let others thrive so that there should be a push for Palestinian national election.
00:15:38:01 – 00:16:33:21
Samer Sinijlawi
It is not a political luxury. It is now a security necessity for both Palestinians and Israelis. It is a demand now. It is the cornerstone for everybody to be able to avoid another earthquake like the 7th of October. If you don’t care about Palestinian democracy, at least nobody dares to say that they don’t care about Israeli security. This is something directly related to the Israeli security and to the Palestinian democracy and rights and freedom of participation and politics in life, which is the very healthy, preconceived for a better performance in in handling the Palestinian interests and representing that interest in the best way possible.
00:16:33:23 – 00:16:41:23
Richard Pater
Do you have a candidate that you would personally endorse to be the next president?
00:16:42:00 – 00:17:12:11
Samer Sinijlawi
Well, none of the usual suspects which people will give you. You know, sometimes some people believe that they are experts. They have been listening for certain names for 20 years, and they keep repeating them out of professionals. They know who who is, what. They are mistaken. None of the usual suspects. There is a new generation that will surprise everybody when it comes to a free and fair election.
00:17:12:11 – 00:17:51:02
Samer Sinijlawi
They will mobilize, they will come to the stage, they will introduce themselves, and they will get the public vote. So, it’s too early to give names, but I can tell you the profile of, of this. Nader will be young, energetic, smart, with volcano in his chest that makes him not sleep the night into trying to find a way out, not by a, you know, a verbal action.
00:17:51:04 – 00:18:20:04
Samer Sinijlawi
Because now the talented Palestinian politicians are those who are able to perform a speech. Okay, to echo a popular message that brings them a lot of fun on social media. This is not how you manage a situation where you have lost 100,000 lives in two and a half years in Gaza, and 2 million people are redeployed in plastic tents.
00:18:20:05 – 00:18:46:23
Samer Sinijlawi
It’s not my popular. You need to be responsible. You need sometimes to say things that are very hard, not accepted, contradiction, but they are the way out and you need to feel responsibility. So, a different profile of leadership will introduce itself to the Palestinian political theatre. And then we will start, you know, comparing names by, you know, listening to, to new raising voices among Palestinians.
00:18:47:04 – 00:18:52:08
Samer Sinijlawi
Forget about the usual suspects. None of them could do the job.
00:18:52:10 – 00:19:12:16
Richard Pater
Fascinating. Just to focus on Gaza for a second. You mentioned kind of the significance of the local election. But what do you see as the prospect of, for the sake of the Palestinian people, of removing Hamas from power? Is that realistic? Do you trust the plan of the international community, or do you suggest a different approach?
00:19:12:18 – 00:19:25:13
Samer Sinijlawi
I trust the intentions of the international community. I am very afraid from the.
00:19:25:15 – 00:20:03:18
Samer Sinijlawi
Ability of the Israeli government in blocking a continuation of the process. Now, the Prime Minister of Israel insists, for example, that the disarmament of Hamas is an event and not a process, an event, meaning that he would like to set a date where every single Hamas and personnel will come to a corrupting point and throw his gun, and with a white flag.
00:20:03:20 – 00:20:57:14
Samer Sinijlawi
I haven’t heard anything in history where disarmament was done in such a ceremonial surrender event. It’s not going to happen. Disarmament of Hamas can be achieved. If we look at it as a process where first step in that should be allowed to enter Gaza, Hamas has declared they are going to transfer all power to the hands of England when engaged, is in a situation that it has received all the authority in Gaza, and they control the local police and they control the local internet security, and they have the power to enforce law.
00:20:57:16 – 00:21:27:01
Samer Sinijlawi
Then they can make sure that they will start implementing the one law, one gun philosophy on the territory they control. Nothing else can lead to the disarmament. Bibi Netanyahu himself is not able to disarm Hamas and the West Bank, that his army controls all of it. So, he is trying to sell us a fantasy that Gaza needs to disarm alone by itself.
00:21:27:02 – 00:21:56:19
Samer Sinijlawi
If his army is not able to do the job in the Western, if he is not able to disarm the organized crime groups inside Israel proper. So, this is a challenge always for any sober, for any government, for any law enforcement agency anywhere in the world, how to make sure that they will have a zero-arm zone, zero illegal answer.
00:21:56:20 – 00:22:31:08
Samer Sinijlawi
It is a process. It needs to continue. It never stops, but we need to allow the first steps blocking the entrance of England at the condition that before they enter, Hamas should disarm. It means that you want to keep this tax code maybe until the coming Israeli election. Everything is related to the election campaign in Israel. Now, when it comes to Bibi, this is playing fire with lives of Israelis and Palestinians because it is a ticking bomb situation.
00:22:31:08 – 00:22:55:12
Samer Sinijlawi
It could explode any time. Is the same genius that thought that his concept of separation between the West Bank and and does and keeping Hamas in the in Gaza strip and Abbas in the West Bank is good for him. It was on the 7th of October. It’s the same guy that he’s trying to sell a new concept of, of managing things.
00:22:55:12 – 00:22:58:15
Samer Sinijlawi
And unfortunately, it’s very risky for all of us.
00:22:58:16 – 00:23:27:03
Richard Pater
You’ve spoken in the past about kind of the strategic necessity for both Israelis and the Palestinians to kind of to, to grasp and move towards peace. However, as we recognize in the current Israeli environment, there is so much scepticism. What was the strongest argument that you would put forward to a sceptical Israeli public right now? And perhaps one of the first steps you would move to, to create kind of confidence building measures between the sides?
00:23:27:05 – 00:23:51:24
Samer Sinijlawi
Well, we Palestinians need to understand that our national aim should be trying to defeat the field inside the hearts of the Israelis. The enemy is not Israel. The enemy is the fear, the lack of security that they have in their hearts. If we defeat this, we will be able to have a majority of Israelis that will support a political development.
00:23:52:01 – 00:24:21:06
Samer Sinijlawi
They are blocked from going into this path, not because of ideology, more because of lack of confidence and security. And this can happen by always trying to find common ground, by trying to convince, by trying to show, to show a change on our side. The best way you can deliver a political message to the other side of the conflict.
00:24:21:08 – 00:24:57:24
Samer Sinijlawi
It’s not to give the other side election is to set an example. Then the message will resonate better and will have a positive impact. So, we need to focus on this direction that we Palestinians, we better intensify our talks with the Israelis, not our campaign in the world against Israelis. I can understand that the Israeli government has crossed all the red lines, but this does not mean that I still don’t have partners inside the society.
00:24:58:00 – 00:25:23:18
Samer Sinijlawi
We have partners and inside the society. This conflict is no more Israeli Palestinian. This conflict is the moderate camp against the radical camp on both sides. So, there should be partnership. The radicals did not shy to show partnership. They did not shy to show that they serve each other. Why should the moderates shy to show that they are building bridges?
00:25:23:20 – 00:25:52:05
Samer Sinijlawi
We are at least more capable to be proud of being on, on, on, on, on the moderate side and being more reasonable and being more human. Because in this conflict, if you want to judge the other side from what you see on the surface, it applies on both sides, then all you get is a very dark image. You can see the hatred, the assignment, all the ugly things are doing to each other.
00:25:52:07 – 00:26:33:17
Samer Sinijlawi
If we are able recently to dig deep and try to understand the other side deeply, we can reach to a common reservoir of humanity that needs to be tapped. When we are able to connect on that level of depth, we can understand better different ways of handling our differences and working the challenges together. Because I think the majority of Palestinians and Israelis do not refuse the idea of coexistence into entities next to each other.
00:26:33:19 – 00:27:14:20
Samer Sinijlawi
Israelis would love to have their own democratic Jewish state, and the Palestinians would love to have their own national state. And majority of people on both sides would welcome that kind of two neighbouring countries that live in peace together and maybe transfer this conflict into partnership. This change from conflict to partnership will benefit both our peoples. Thousand times more than the kind of conflict relation that we are managing for years and years.
00:27:14:22 – 00:27:43:08
Richard Pater
So, on that note, I mean, we met recently in the Knesset at an event that was promoting regional security. I have to say that your speech there was very well received by the by the Israeli audience and the and the MKs in the room. I was just wondering, what role do you see the Palestinians playing in the regional context, specifically amongst the Abraham Accord countries, but also Saudi, Saudi Arabia, for example?
00:27:43:10 – 00:28:09:16
Samer Sinijlawi
Well, I think it’s one package. Now, the development cannot be bilateral, not Saudi, Israeli, not Palestinian, is not Saudi Israeli, because the Saudis would like to see the progress of the Palestinians, not Palestinian. Is really because the Israelis are hesitant only to have a bilateral deal and forget about their incentive is and motivation is the regional package.
00:28:09:17 – 00:28:44:09
Samer Sinijlawi
So, the regional package is a must for everybody. And I do believe that when Israel signed a peace agreement with both Palestine and Saudi Arabia, that day will be the real day of independence of Israel. Israel will be fully integrated in the region, will be fully accepted in the region. Finally, the Israelis will feel that they are not part of Europe, which actually they are not part of Europe, and will start feeling that they are part of the Middle East where they belong, because they are actually in the Middle East.
00:28:44:10 – 00:29:28:16
Samer Sinijlawi
This is the real date of independence for Israel. And maybe someday, one Israeli Prime Minister will decide to change the date of independence to that date, which I think it’s very neat. It’s more convincing. So, everything in the region is giving us induction that the region wants this. Okay. There is a necessity. We have seen recently, just a few days ago when Iran attacked the United Arab Emirates, to us Israeli army units that are operating some kind of iron drone.
00:29:28:18 – 00:30:15:17
Samer Sinijlawi
Is there any technology that protected Emirates? Okay. So, the region needs that cooperation against the real challenge in the region, the capital of radicalism and extremism, the well, Israelis and the Marathas can find themselves as the moderates. So, when Israel starts acting in its moderate dimension, it gets the endorsement of the region, when sometimes the minority in the coalition pushes Israel into its radical element, Israel starts isolating itself from the dynamics of the region.
00:30:15:22 – 00:30:28:03
Samer Sinijlawi
But the need is there, the interest is there. Everybody wants that development to happen. I think we are very close to it, more than when we see what we think.
00:30:28:05 – 00:30:41:21
Richard Pater
And just one last question. You mentioned that you’re in London this week. What can you tell us about the trip, your agenda and the potential role that the UK could play in fostering Israeli Palestinian ties?
00:30:41:23 – 00:31:18:00
Samer Sinijlawi
Well, I had a couple of speaking events in our and in Oxford. I had several meetings on a political level, including some private meetings with policymakers and governmental officials. You can still offer a lot to the Palestinian Israeli conflict. UK is one of the countries that understands more than anybody else in the world. The details of that conflict, the history of that conflict.
00:31:18:02 – 00:31:57:13
Samer Sinijlawi
You are very involved more than you know, the Americans, more than any other country. That’s why, you know, an opinion from the UK resonates in capitals that are maybe in position of better leverage in advancing things like the USA. USA always see the UK one step ahead of them in the Middle East, and I think UK can always maintain a leading role, together with the USA and the EU in pushing political development in the Middle East.
00:31:57:15 – 00:32:28:02
Samer Sinijlawi
So, I do believe that the UK can help into pushing the Palestinian elections. A change of leadership now in the Palestinian side at the time that the Israelis are preparing for their national elections, were most probably there will be a new prime minister. That window, if it opens, if the Palestinians are not ready. We lost it. That window forces the urgency of doing Palestinian national elections, and the UK can push in that direction.
00:32:28:04 – 00:32:35:24
Richard Pater
Thank you so much for you for your analytical insight and your optimism as well. Most appreciated. Thank you very much.
00:32:36:00 – 00:32:39:06
Samer Sinijlawi
And thank you, thank you, thank you. Bye.