In this episode, Richard Pater speaks with Koby Huberman, who reflects on how the war with Iran is influencing the thinking across the Gulf and wider region. He examines changing perceptions of Iran among Gulf leaders, the long-term challenges, and opportunities that could emerge.
Koby Huberman is an Israeli high-tech veteran and business strategist. He is the co-author of the “Israeli Peace Initiative (IPI)”, and co-founded the Israeli Regional Initiative Group, which since 2006 promoted a new horizon for the Israeli-Arab conflict: a “Regional Package Deal” with a 2 states solution as part of a “Regional Framework”. He serves on the advisory board of MENA 2050 and also the co-author of the “Take off to 100” a vision and a strategic plan for the build-up of Israel following the crisis October 7, 2023, profiled in Fathom in May 2024 and a co-founder of the “Coalition for Regional Security”.
Transcript
(This transcript has been automatically generated by AI — please excuse any potential errors.)
00:00:07:05 – 00:00:33:09
Richard Pater
Hello and welcome to the latest BICOM podcast. I’m Richard Pater, the director of BICOM. And today is the 31st of March. And the Iran war is now in its fourth week. My guest today is Koby Huberman, who is a veteran high-tech entrepreneur and business strategies, and a leader of a variety of civil society initiatives, including the co-founding of the Israel Peace Initiative over 20 years ago.
00:00:33:11 – 00:01:10:22
Richard Pater
At the time, he was ahead of the curve as the initiative helps regional leaders and decision makers explore new strategic paradigms that include regional alliances between Israel and the Arab world. Following the Abraham Accords, he also established and is on the advisory board of Mena 2050, which similarly looks to engage with Israel and the Arab world. And finally, he is also a founding member of the Coalition for Regional Security, a new Israeli political security initiative that leverages the regional opportunities facing the State of Israel to strengthen the country’s security for years to come.
00:01:11:02 – 00:01:18:01
Richard Pater
And for full transparency, I’m also a proud member of that coalition. Koby, thank you very much indeed for joining me.
00:01:18:03 – 00:01:20:02
Koby Huberman
Thank you. Richard, it’s a pleasure.
00:01:20:04 – 00:01:36:20
Richard Pater
Perhaps we can start with kind of bearing in mind your extensive connections across the region, in the Arab world, maybe you could assess for us and sum up what your colleagues and allies in the Gulf and across the region, how they’re coping, and what’s been their reaction to the war four weeks in?
00:01:36:22 – 00:02:09:07
Koby Huberman
Well, first of all, I must say that some of my friends in the Gulf countries, whether in Bahrain, Kuwait, you know, the Arab Emirates and, and, and Saudi Arabia are actually coping with, you know, and a threat to physical security. They’re being attacked. Some of them do not have shelters, and they rely on and to I, missile defence.
00:02:09:09 – 00:02:38:09
Koby Huberman
So that is a very new fact in their well-being. And on a daily approach, it has led some of them to, the reawakening or reassessment of the positions understanding, as one of them has so eloquently explained to me. They said, for years we knew that Iran is a potential threat. Now we know it is a threat.
00:02:38:11 – 00:02:50:08
Koby Huberman
And that means, you know, a very different, game plan for us and for our national security issues as well as future strategies.
00:02:50:10 – 00:03:04:17
Richard Pater
Must be an interesting that although we hear the suggestion that they are encouraging Israel and the US to continue to strike, we have not seen them striking back themselves. How do you explain and, assess their current, the posture of the government, of the governments of the Gulf?
00:03:04:22 – 00:03:47:07
Koby Huberman
Well, I don’t think that each and every one of the governments addresses and calculates this in the same manner. I think, Bahrain is in a very different position in comparison to Saudi Arabia, and the UAE is in a different position. Personally, I do not expect huge U-turns immediately on what had been a very solid strategy for, in some cases, more than a decade, turning around all of a sudden and changing position vis a vis the new situation.
00:03:47:09 – 00:04:14:02
Koby Huberman
And it is fair to say that you cannot compare the, Katari, strategic confusion and tremendous, I was going I say paradox of trying to be friends with everybody and to be the ultimate mediator, just to find out that at the end of the day, you’re being attacked by the very same people with whom you tried to keep friendship and open channels all of these years.
00:04:14:04 – 00:04:43:21
Koby Huberman
So, I don’t think that we can expect, drastic U-turns. I am encouraged by the instinct. Although these are not necessarily mentioned officially. But I’m encouraged by the instinct, the healthy instinct of some of those leaders who say we understand what Iran is. We now know what Iran, if not completely defeated and without regime change what it might be.
00:04:44:01 – 00:05:13:24
Koby Huberman
And we are remaining in the neighbourhood and therefore we need to think very carefully about how we act, who we aligned with, and how we push the current short-term agenda of the region. As well as the game plan between Iran, Israel and the United States. All in all, I hope that reason will prevail and eventually they will be able to tell in a more clear manner.
00:05:14:01 – 00:06:02:24
Koby Huberman
Good for bad friends for and, let me just add one more angle. You know, that, this is the first time in which in a, in the OIC, the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, which, you know, brings together under the same wings 57 countries, people or countries are fighting each other and actually being attacked. There’s no there’s no, if you like, Islamic solidarity or Arab solidarity, you know that some of these countries in the Gulf are particularly annoyed by the fact that they do not hear very clear language or very actual, or they don’t see actual support from some other Arab countries.
00:06:03:01 – 00:06:19:09
Koby Huberman
So, this is a major shakeup of calculus relationship and, expectations. And that would lead to a major shakeup in plans, strategies and expectations for the future.
00:06:19:11 – 00:06:28:17
Richard Pater
I wonder if you could just drill down a little more on kind of the distinction between the Saudi approach and the, and the Emirati approach, as you, as you see it at the moment.
00:06:28:19 – 00:06:59:12
Koby Huberman
I don’t think that there is a genuine difference between the two. At least I’m not aware, to that. For me, the statements, that came from, say, the UAE ambassador in Washington, DC, which perfectly presents the opinion and the position of the United Arab Emirates. I don’t think it is that far away from the thinking in Riyadh.
00:06:59:14 – 00:07:27:01
Koby Huberman
I don’t think that members and embassy are, you know, standing behind two very different lines. No, I think there are more or less in the same camp. So, I don’t want to go into any, you know, guess any guesswork. Assumptions about what differentiates the two of them at the moment. Both are attacked. Both see the energy crisis.
00:07:27:01 – 00:07:42:07
Koby Huberman
Both are very worried about Iran’s position, and both have failed in the background, in the past, in any attempts to appease the Iranian regime and failed.
00:07:42:09 – 00:07:50:18
Richard Pater
Do you see any likelihood of that posture changing in terms of, of, of joining in any, any attacks? Is there a scenario that you can see that is realistic?
00:07:50:24 – 00:08:16:06
Koby Huberman
I don’t know. I don’t think that you join an attack with, in a twist of a finger or a twist of a speech. I don’t think we are. We still understand. And, Okay, let me put it this way. I think we still do not understand the scope, the length and the timeline of the events with Iran. I don’t think it is a quick and dirty war.
00:08:16:08 – 00:08:53:21
Koby Huberman
I am afraid this is going to be a long-term conflict between Iran. Whether this was him or in the remnants of this regime. As reflected in proxies or in terrorist cells across the world. I don’t think that, you know, an immediate regime change is changing the whole picture. I do believe that the, there is a risk of a, you know, framework of religious fights between Sunni and Shia.
00:08:53:23 – 00:09:11:05
Koby Huberman
I think there is a potential of clash of values between, modernizing countries and stabilization forces versus spoilers. I think it is much too early to tell how things will shape.
00:09:11:07 – 00:09:22:09
Richard Pater
But what should be in you from a military perspective of the of the operations that the US and Israel have carried out? What’s been your view of, of the, of the success so far, four weeks in?
00:09:22:11 – 00:09:53:18
Koby Huberman
Well, I think that if you count targets and if you count tangible impact, there’s no doubt that this has been a phenomenal success militarily. I do think that the real question is, where do you take that on the strategic level, on what happens, vis a vis the long-term future? And frankly, you know, it’s extremely impressive to see what these two air forces and two armies were able to achieve.
00:09:53:20 – 00:10:13:08
Koby Huberman
I must say that I am surprised by the relative weakness of Iran as it was exposed here. But I do not think that it is a matter of targets accounting that tells you the result of the war and the impact on the future.
00:10:13:10 – 00:10:22:12
Richard Pater
So, you mentioned before that you see this kind of being dragged out in the in the long term. Could you just can you just expand on work on where you see this, how this how you see this playing out?
00:10:22:14 – 00:10:55:02
Koby Huberman
Okay. First of all, I do not think that a strong ideological regime like the one that we found in Iran, definitely now in the hands of the, IRGC is, likely to, you know, raise a white flag and say, fine, we are now forgetting about our long term, almost 50 years of revolution.
00:10:55:04 – 00:11:30:07
Koby Huberman
And we are now going to sit back like those Boy Scouts and be quiet and helpful. I don’t think that that happens. I think we might see both in Iran, among proxy organizations where the Houthis militia in Iraq and definitely Hezbollah. We will see continuous fighting. I don’t think that the Shiite minorities in some countries will remain quiet, and they may be agitated by Iranian agents.
00:11:30:09 – 00:12:14:20
Koby Huberman
I don’t think that communities around the world where there are, quiet terrorist cells, will remain quiet and, forever. Therefore, I do not think that, and let’s also remember, Richard, that Iran is the master of resilience in long wars. Whether with this regime or with others. So, I do not expect that this conflict of this collusion will bite, you know, in a binary move will all of a sudden turn into a peace, for forever.
00:12:14:21 – 00:12:25:09
Koby Huberman
I do not believe in these scenarios in the Middle East anywhere, and definitely not with Iran, given its position, heritage and aspirations.
00:12:25:11 – 00:12:42:00
Richard Pater
Within your role and capacity within the, the civil society initiatives and, dialog groups? Do you have much contact with the Iranian dissidents and, and, and anyone from the anyone either in Iran or, or expats, Iranians that you’re involved with?
00:12:42:02 – 00:13:22:02
Koby Huberman
No, no. With, 1 or 2 exceptions. No. But, we and I personally have, deliberately refrained from maintaining any contact because I could not trust, any anyone leaving Iran for being an innocent and peace-loving individual. I know the Iranian regime has been, using some of the, some of these, people, to serve its own purposes, and therefore I refrain from that, quite diligently.
00:13:22:04 – 00:13:31:04
Richard Pater
And what do you think, would you suggest for the overall prospects of the Iranian people returning out to the streets and challenging the regime?
00:13:31:06 – 00:14:04:02
Koby Huberman
I think it is high. I don’t think it is immediate. I think it will be coupled with the realization of what the current regime is causing them. It will materialize when people realize the huge economic hit and, it may be then, a more fertile ground and those that that future reality may be a more fertile ground for uprising or renewed uprising.
00:14:04:04 – 00:14:21:08
Koby Huberman
I admire the courage and the freedom, sentiment of huge elements within the Iranian public. And I really hope for them and for the future of the region that they will succeed.
00:14:21:10 – 00:14:46:08
Richard Pater
Absolutely. If we can turn our attention to Lebanon for a moment, I thought it’s worth noting what I thought were quite encouraging. Comments by the Lebanese president when he spoke, a week or so ago, blaming Hezbollah explicitly for starting the war of importing a, an external conflict into, into, into Lebanon, and since then, taking steps to remove, Iranian officials.
00:14:46:10 – 00:14:58:06
Richard Pater
Are you optimistic that, that Hezbollah can be detached from the political system in Lebanon and that the potential for, for a future peace agreement eventually between Israel and Lebanon?
00:14:58:08 – 00:15:42:06
Koby Huberman
Okay. Let me address these two, two separate questions. So first of all, I will say that we had we never saw, you know, we never saw something similar to what we see in the world now in Lebanon for decades. I mean, for the first time, the, Lebanese leadership understands that it lost its own country and it has been occupied by a semi-state terrorist organization that is a proxy of a remote enemy called Iran.
00:15:42:07 – 00:16:18:01
Koby Huberman
I think they realize that now far more than ever before. And they realized that it is time for them to take responsibility. These this is an amazing opportunity to reach change or to recalibrate the relationship between Israel and Lebanon and between Lebanon and the rest of the Arab world. Because, as you know, it is highly linked to the situation of what’s going on in Syria and what’s going on with respect to its relationship with Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries.
00:16:18:03 – 00:16:51:05
Koby Huberman
So, I think, yes, from a political perspective, there is an internal political perspective. It has never been more appropriate for the Lebanese, the possible for the appropriate leadership to change the reality on the ground. I do think they lack the sometimes the courage or the means or the international support to do so. But I still believe it is a major shift that should be, exploited with respect to Hezbollah.
00:16:51:07 – 00:17:20:14
Koby Huberman
I do not think that we will see, another flag of surrender from Chris Butler that quick. I think that they have been remarkably capable of resurrecting some of their capabilities since then, ceasefire. And they are inflicting damage on Israeli north and even centre and south. And I think that, they are not here to stay, but they are not disappearing.
00:17:20:15 – 00:17:58:19
Koby Huberman
And let me just give you one more thing as a as an example of that, if 600,000 Lebanese citizens will not be able to go back to the, south of southern Lebanon area, south of the Litani River, then you are inflicting another 600,000, refugees on a smaller Lebanon with major clashes. And you are creating a reservoir of a potential support group for Hezbollah and its political campaigns.
00:17:58:21 – 00:18:06:13
Koby Huberman
So, is there an opportunity? Yes. Is Hezbollah going to be detached? I’m not sure.
00:18:06:15 – 00:18:27:23
Richard Pater
And just relative to Lebanon as well. How do you assess the relationship with the, with between Lebanon and Saudi Arabia? There are some other Israeli analysts that talk optimistically about kind of replacing the Iranian patronage with, with Saudis and that they could be a positive influence there. Do you think that, in the in the pipeline, is that realistic?
00:18:28:00 – 00:19:03:22
Koby Huberman
My view is that we have a golden opportunity to stabilize the Levant, including the Lebanon and parts of Syria, and in a way, ensuring, providing better security for, Jordan, as well. I think that this is a project that will have moving elements, and it will eventually bring together Saudi Arabia, more likely into Lebanon and Syria and the UAE more likely to, Syria and Lebanon.
00:19:03:24 – 00:19:42:04
Koby Huberman
You cannot, you know, necessarily differentiate between the two. But there is a genuine opportunity to stabilize a simmering part of the Middle East and to put it on a more reasonable framework of stability. State building. And may I say, you know, even normal, normal behaviour, in comparison to what it used to be up until just two years ago as a major, major extension of the Iranian Shiite, axis.
00:19:42:06 – 00:20:25:01
Koby Huberman
So, I hope the Saudis will wake up to the challenge. I hope the UAE will as well. And I hope that; it will be done with and with a kind of a creative equilibrium with Turkish aspirations as well. So, you need to create a very interesting career, choreography in the region of the Levant. If you want to achieve, better stability and more reasonable frameworks, for, political arrangements on the security and later on, maybe even, you know, peace with Israel.
00:20:25:03 – 00:20:26:01
Koby Huberman
00:20:26:03 – 00:20:46:18
Richard Pater
I mean, you mentioned you mentioned both Saudi Arabia and sorry, Syria and Turkey, the new Syrian leader happens to be in the UK this week. What do you make of the prospects of kind of, of the new Syrian regime stabilizing and kind of being, being open to some form of non-aggression agreement with, with Israel?
00:20:46:18 – 00:20:51:22
Richard Pater
And as you alluded to before, kind of the role that Turkey plays within this vicinity as well.
00:20:52:03 – 00:21:20:08
Koby Huberman
Let me start by saying that from an Israeli perspective, having or having stabilized the northern front is a key strategic, national security interest. Let me also say that in my view, preventing a collision and finding a way to coexist with Turkey and Turkish aspirations in the region is also a strategic interest of the state of Israel. I, I believe that this should be a major effort.
00:21:20:10 – 00:22:07:06
Koby Huberman
I therefore see a possibility to create a new equilibrium, for, for a few years in Lebanon, Syria and Israel with the help and cooperation of Saudi Arabia, the UAE, the United States and France on the on the sidelines, but also with some kind of, quiet cooperation competition with Turkey. I believe that once we see where the major from with Iran, where it is going, I think that will be the major, battlefield and opportunity for diplomacy in the region as a whole.
00:22:07:08 – 00:22:22:13
Richard Pater
Interesting. You mentioned France there. Obviously, they have a historic connection to Lebanon. What about the, the UK role? Potentially and kind of referencing also your involvement with the mean 2050 and the UK, angle there and involvement.
00:22:22:15 – 00:23:00:04
Koby Huberman
You know, meaningfully doesn’t have a UK angle. It is it is formally based in the UK, but it is active everywhere around the region trying to bring cross-border opportunities and people for cooperation. And so, I don’t think that Mena 2050 will be relevant in this respect. With respect to the actual involvement in the Levant, frankly, at the moment I do not see any immediate or obvious connection and contact points for the UK to have an influence there.
00:23:00:06 – 00:23:24:04
Koby Huberman
I do see, potential influence in the Gulf, as it always has been, but I do not necessarily see, I think that it is now almost 110 years, when, the borders were drawn with straight lines between French hegemony, if you like, and British or Germany in the region. I don’t think that has changed that much.
00:23:24:09 – 00:23:46:23
Richard Pater
Okay. And just on the, reflecting on the Saudi position, I mean, prior to this war, the conventional thinking was that this was that they were keen on normalization with Israel, but perhaps not in the immediate, and not necessarily wanting to give this to the current, the current, Israeli government. And so perhaps it was on, on ice for at least a year or so.
00:23:47:00 – 00:23:51:16
Richard Pater
Disagree with that. Do you think the war has changed that calculation?
00:23:51:18 – 00:24:30:06
Koby Huberman
No. To October 7th. The Saudi calculations were based on three things. It is, you know, the American administration at the time and what they demanded of the administration, the Israeli government at the time and the, view that they do not want the Palestinian issue to hijack their aspirations, but they wanted to see a path that protects the Saudi leadership from the exposure to criticism that they have neglected the Palestinian issue.
00:24:30:08 – 00:25:04:23
Koby Huberman
But the price list for these three was one, and it dramatically changed, within a year or two after the eruption of the war. In fact, I believe that the eruption of war was also one of its, objectives was to derail the train of, Israeli, Israeli, Saudi, normalization, bring normalization and a somewhat less decisive, vision for the Palestinian problem.
00:25:05:00 – 00:25:47:11
Koby Huberman
I think those elements have changed. I don’t think that the underlying aspirations have changed, but perhaps the priorities and perhaps the prices that the Saudis do not want to see being paid, especially with Palestinian currency. But I do think that this is again framed, unlike the beginning of the war. It is now framed within the framework of the Trump 20 points plan, which in a way opens the door for a path and development of an Israeli Palestinian progress within a regional framework which the Saudis could feel comfortable with.
00:25:47:13 – 00:26:24:13
Koby Huberman
I do think that, as I said earlier, the current clash with Iran and where it goes in the following weeks and months will change the calculations. And, for example, with respect to Saudi, we know that we see rapprochement that wouldn’t have been envisioned up until, six, 12 months ago between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Turkey, especially in view of what is, I believe, wrongly viewed as Israeli aspirations in the region and the Israeli military capabilities.
00:26:24:15 – 00:26:46:18
Koby Huberman
So, things are changing. Is there a chance for rapprochement? Is there a chance for normalization? Yes. Where the answer could lie is in the implementation of stabilization in Gaza. The 20-point plan of President Trump and the development on the ground, both in Lebanon and in the Gulf.
00:26:46:20 – 00:27:10:00
Richard Pater
And I suppose similar questions to the to the Qatari position. They used, as you said, but Lucas did before, kind of sitting on the fence and kind of talking to everyone. Their role of mediators has been, slightly diminished now. And they’ve also they’ve also been attacked. Do you think there is also there an opportunity to bring them into the, into a diplomatic rapprochement with Israel?
00:27:10:02 – 00:28:08:08
Koby Huberman
Let me just say that the role of the role that Carter chose to play in the past, the footnote was the ultimate mediator. The headline and the major book was based on poisoning and destabilizing the region, both against Israel, both against, modernization in ways, both against pragmatism, both against the Western world, with a very, very, let me say, dubious approach and very poisonous media capabilities and brilliant implications, or exploitation of opportunities on the business branding and, you know, controlling the centres of powers, whether in academia, media, politicians and sports, what have you.
00:28:08:10 – 00:28:52:12
Koby Huberman
I think that was Qatar’s major project to have access, control and influence on many, many, many countries. And being, as a result, perceived as an ultimate mediator given what they did in Afghanistan, their support of Hamas, their position vis a vis was the Brotherhood in general, what they did in Turkey, etc., etc. In, in Syria. So, I don’t think that you can turn the, the Qatari poisonous cat into a peace-loving lion.
00:28:52:14 – 00:29:22:18
Koby Huberman
I don’t think that this is in the cards. I think they will have to recalculate again where they are. But more importantly, I hope that they are brothers. And the Western world and, including my own government will rethink the potential and the damage and potential damage of relationship with Qatar as it was in the past, two decades.
00:29:22:20 – 00:29:30:21
Richard Pater
And more broadly, kind of in a post war scenario. What do you think are the ramifications for the Abraham Accords and the, the alliance is there?
00:29:30:23 – 00:29:56:07
Koby Huberman
Okay. I do not want necessarily to relate to the Abraham Accords in the technical frame, the present, simply because, for example, I don’t believe that Saudi Arabia will join the Abraham Accords. I think that they will design, at the best case in accord of their own. They don’t seem to be joiners of other initiatives.
00:29:56:07 – 00:31:01:14
Koby Huberman
And frankly, I don’t care if the Abraham Accords will be called from now on, the Negev coalition. Abraham, and Jesus Christ accord, as long as they bring a spirit, intent and reality of stability, peace and, and economic growth in the region. That statement is not based just on diplomacy, because in order to bring the region to its full potential, you will need to create cross-border, significant, significant economic projects, both an infrastructure you will need to rethink the flow of energy, goods, technology, tourism and, all the way to health care and mobilization of workforce, etc., etc. and therefore, I don’t care if it is, I don’t care how those
00:31:01:14 – 00:31:38:04
Koby Huberman
will be called. Although I do know is that the pioneering effort of the UAE, Bahrain and Morocco will serve as a model of what? Of how that full region could look like had it been, more flexible and more pragmatic. Vis-a-vis Israel and work together with Israel on both building security, protecting the region from its own spoilers, and strengthening the region, both, economically and culturally.
00:31:38:06 – 00:31:58:08
Koby Huberman
There’s a long way to go. And I believe that this could be the protocol next two generations, by the way, as was the project of the EU at the time. And I believe, honestly, that, the chances of this materializing are higher than what seems to be at the moment.
00:31:58:10 – 00:32:05:22
Richard Pater
Okay. Brilliant. I think we’re about finished. Is there anything that I haven’t asked you’d like to add for our listeners?
00:32:05:24 – 00:32:30:24
Koby Huberman
Yeah. I’d like to mention that the things that I’ve talked about, we haven’t touched upon the positions or the attitudes of neither the Israeli government nor the Israeli public. And I think that the backdrop for almost everything that I said is the realization that the Israeli people, the Israeli society and civil society organizations have shown an immense degree.
00:32:31:00 – 00:33:13:23
Koby Huberman
I mean, an unbelievable, degree of solidarity, of resilience and of a, you know, focus. When the starting point had been, the horrible one. I think it is the end of the time where Israel can afford to contain risks and calculate that they will not erupt one day, because on every front, when this approach had been implemented and the wrong and the wrong way, we have seen an explosion, whether in Lebanon, Gaza, Iran for sure, almost in Syria and I’m afraid in the West Bank as well.
00:33:14:04 – 00:33:52:15
Koby Huberman
And of course, Yemen, which is a whole new, episode here. But at the same time, at the same time, the strength of Israel and its achievement in the battlefield must be translated to a significant diplomatic, effort initiatives and, and real facts on the ground. And there are new opportunities for that. And there is a real chance that in the next few years, we will see an emerging new reality.
00:33:52:17 – 00:34:23:17
Koby Huberman
And I wonder whether this government is going to implement this, but at least I know that our current Prime minister is talking about this. So, I think that the direction whether Israel will survive, there is no more it’s not the question anymore. The question how Israel will flourish and strengthen its position and contribute to the entire Middle East.
00:34:23:19 – 00:34:27:09
Koby Huberman
That is the major challenge ahead. And I’m optimistic about that.
00:34:27:15 – 00:34:35:16
Richard Pater
Fantastic. Koby, thank you so much. And ahead of tomorrow, wishing you and your family a very, happy and peaceful Pesach as well.
00:34:35:18 – 00:34:43:09
Koby Huberman
Thank you. And I hope we will not need 40 years until we get to the promised Land. I’m sure we can make it a little bit faster now.
00:34:43:11 – 00:34:45:17
Richard Pater
Absolutely. Amen then, inshallah.